From: military-radio-guy Full-Name: Dennis R Starks To: military radio collectors#2 Fcc: Sent Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 05:46:04 -0500 Subject: MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, Oct.22/99 Message-ID: <19991022.054604.3974.5.military-radio-guy@juno.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, Oct.22/99 Index: ANNOUNCEMENTS; FSE 38/58 Group Project, ARMY VERSUS NAVY; Part II, Secrecy or Publicity, by Dennis Starks MEMBERS WRITE; MX-300R Replacement? Navy Seal's & the MX-300R, NEW MEMBER; Tom Campbell HUMOR; *********************************************** ANNOUNCEMENTS; FSE 38/58 Group Project, We have finalized the deal for the FSE German radio group project, and will be able to ship direct from Europe, thus saving you the postage from my house to yours. The cost of each radio will be $50, plus $1 from each person to cover fees, etc. The radio comes with a canvas case and antenna. They are in good but grimy condition, but can be cleaned up. It needs a standard PRC-10 era handset which are not available through this source. I am working on a four "N" cell battery replacement, but am not finished with it yet. The following people have expressed interest in getting one. Are you still interested? Is anyone else interested? There are about 40 available. Tom Bryan Ralph Hogan (Gee Dennis, I wonder why he wants one???) Joe Pinner Buzz Jim Hopper Hal Blaisdell (2 ea?) Breck Smith David Ward Joe KI8HP Brian Clark (extra postage required to Australia) Ike Now is the time to come through with real funds. Send funds and address to, Alan Tasker 64 Dyer St. N. Billerica, MA 01862 For anyone whose shipping address is out of the North American Continent, we will contact you with shipping choices and costs. If we could find a good inexpensive (oxymoron I know) crystal supplier, maybe we could do a group re-crystalling project??? Thank you. Alan, atasker@ix.netcom.com *********************************************** ARMY VERSUS NAVY; Part II, Secrecy or Publicity, by Dennis Starks Forward, The overwhelming popularity, deserving or otherwise, of Army/Signal Corps type equipment as compared to Naval is based on one premise,(Our knowledge of it's existence, and use.) While there does exist some official accounts that have preserved a limited amount of this history for us, by and large the bulk of this information has been left to us by the media leaving us with a severe lack in knowledge of Naval equipment, and it's contributions to history. The First Walkie Talkies? As legend has it, an Army Artillery Sargent who was also an Amateur Radio operator. Upon his seeing an article for a 5mtr transceiver in the 1935 ARRL Handbook decided that this was just the thing for use by artillery spotters. He took his idea to his commanding officer who agreed, then the two went off to the Signal Corps to see if the idea was a feasible one. The result was the SCR-194(BC-222, 27.7-52.2mc). In short order, the Infantry insisted on having just such a radio for their own purposes which would materialize at the same time as the SCR-195(BC-322, 52.8-65.8mc) a higher frequency twin of the 194. In these we have the very first radios to be officially called Walkie Talkie's by our military, the brain child of a lowly artillery sergeant. Or where they? The above account has been repeated many times, and admittedly it's one that I myself like to relate when exhibiting these curious radio sets. But I ask you these questions: #1, Were they the first such radios that world fit the description of what might be termed a "Walkie Talkie"? #2, Where/when did this term first appear? #3, Where did this story originate? Answers?: #1, The Navy's portable transceiver officially called,"Navy Model TBY Ultra-Portable Ultra-High Frequency Transmitting-Receiving Equipment" appeared almost at the exact same time as the SCR-194/195. #2, & #3, These questions are the root of this entire series of articles, the answers to which will belay much future argument before it manifest. It is here that we will concentrate the bulk of this instalment, and we will use the SCR-194, -195 as an example. Navy Paranoia and the Media, At the very beginning of the electronic age, particularly when message traffic progressed past signal flags, lights, and wires, just prior to WW-I, the military was at the very cutting edge of technology. The first mobile long wave radio sets were military. The first portable transmitters, and receivers of the spark gap, and TRF or crystal types were military, they fit into the same case as a standard field telephone, and operated below 200mtrs. The first large maritime transmitters were military. The first aircraft mounted radio equipment of late WW-I(borrowing heavily from French designs) were military. What wasn't entirely military to begin with, like the commercial wire services, or the National Weather Service etc. received partial funding by the military. As a result of all this, the technically inclined public was starving for news as to what marvelous innovation the military was working on, or had just perfected. Virtually every science oriented publication of the time sent it's reporters, and writers to the military each month for material to fill it's pages. Magazines like Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, Radio News, QST etc all had staff writers that were on a first name basis with military officials that could supply them with the news their public insisted on. Most had a special section in each month's issue that was devoted exclusively to military technical news.The Army in most cases was more than happy to supply the media with data, or rather, the propaganda that they felt would serve their own purpose. The Navy on the other hand practiced a policy of secrecy to the point of paranoia. They did not/would not share their technical advances with the media. Not even with the Army would they collaborate on developmental issues of a technical nature. They were so secretive, that even when WW-II was eminent, they refused to share any technical data, or research with the Army that they deemed sensitive. This policy of non-cooperation, and secrecy was so acute, that even early radar research, code breaking advances, or intelligence would not be made privy to Army programs that were feverishly begun at the onset of war. The Navy felt, with good reason, that the Army could not be trusted to insure the integrity of any sensitive material. The Army had demonstrated via the same media that they had embraced that they could not keep a secret. After the beginning of WW-II, all the points outlined above were magnified ten fold. The publics demand for news greatly increased. Ever more articles on Army radio and the like would appear as regular monthly features in many publications, some even sponsored by the Army. And too, the secrecy vail of the Navy's also increased, so much so, that by mid war, it was required of the War Department that they issue orders that the Navy cooperate with the Army. But a mistrust by the Navy towards the Army would persist until the end of WW-II, by which time only token cooperation would be achieved. The non-cooperation attitude of the Navy towards the Army is noted in the above to demonstrate a point. If the Navy wouldn't share it's technical innovations with the Army, you can imagine what their rappor with the media was. From at least the early 30's until the close of WW-II, period publications where dominated by articles on Signal Corps equipment. Often times written with Signal Corps support, and using photographs supplied by the Army. Even advertisements placed by various manufactures of equipment, and parts, demonstrated their products in conjunction with their relationship to Signal Corps equipment, again often times using graphics supplied by the Army. Given that it was the media that we have to thank for much of our knowledge of this equipment, and it being this knowledge that forms our opinion, the Navy and it's equipment would naturally fall far short when compared to the Army Signal Corps. Again I stress that it is our knowledge of an item of equipment and it's use that forms our opinion, and appreciation for it. If we don't know of it, or it's use, we then don't care much about it regardless of it's true merit, or contribution to history. Official Documentation, Besides the media, there were official publications that provide us with a great deal of our current knowledge. The Signal Corps, besides publishing a magazine of it's own("Signals"), also produced catalogs in simi-regular intervals that described in fair detail most of their currently available equipment. The TM11-227, and TM11-487 series manuals, published in sizable quantities and still readily available, form the backbone of our common knowledge today. It is true, the Navy did have it's equivalent in the ENG-175, and SHIPS-207, which were replaced by SHIPS-275 " Catalogue of Naval Radio Equipment" in 1944. However these were published in very limited numbers, so limited in fact that I have never seen, nor heard of the existence of a surviving ENG-175 or SHIPS-207, and I believe that all those currently available reproductions of the SHIPS-275 are possibly the clones of a single surviving issue. All these manuals besides being classified as "Confidential", were issued with orders to destroy all previous versions. This combined with the limited numbers published would account for their extreme rarity today. Besides the catalogs noted above, after WW-II the Army ordered that their entire involvement in WW-II be documented for history in a series of extremely detailed books titled "U.S.Army in World War II", then subtitled by branch, activity, and or campaign. I'm not sure how many volumes the complete series includes(it is many!), but the Signal Corps alone was published in three volumes totaling over 1700 pages that spanned the time from just after WW-I till just after WW-II. These included; The Technical Services: The Signal Corps, "The Test", "The Emergency", and "The Outcome". The Center of Military History also ordered written, and published numerous other books dating until the mid 1970's which provide us with a wealth of historical information. The Navy on the other hand, never officially produced any such materials. Back to the SCR-194, & SCR-195, When these sets first came of age, they too received considerable media coverage. It was the media who first coined the phrase "Walkie Talkie" which would later be universally applied to all such radios. For it's day, it was indeed a marvelous invention. The radio proper was smaller than a child's lunch box of today. A special metal inclosed battery(which was almost the same size as the radio) was simply strapped to it's bottom without virtue of a battery box. Then the set was placed in a canvas pack-bag for use. The design of the radio was as simple as simple can get. It's physical construction was akin to what a gifted Ham Radio operator might produce on his well equipped kitchen table, which indeed the legend of it's birth might suggest. It used two tubes(VT-67 & VT-33) which functioned as a regenerative receiver, and modulated oscillator(during transmit). It's antenna was a very long telescoping type, used as an end fed half wave, screwed directly into a small porcelain insulator on top of the radio. This same antenna(AN-29, & AN-30), in slightly modified form, would later see service on numerous other Signal Corps radios to include the BC-620, -659(SCR-509, -609 respective), early BC-1000(SCR-300) and many others. It was effective, and well suited to radio's that would primarily be used while stationary, but sorrily lacking for back-pack use. If it were damaged while in use, there was no option but to throw it away, and find another. All in all, these radio sets were small, light weight, and must have worked in the hands of a gifted operator as they would see combat service long after their extreme obsolescence. The next installment of this chapter will pick up with a brief description of the TBY, and a comparison of these Army/Navy sets. We will conclude with their historic contributions and how we came to know about them. Dennis Starks; Collector/Historian Midwest Military Communications Museum email: military-radio-guy@juno.com *********************************************** MEMBERS WRITE; MX-300R Replacement? Dennis, Do you know what is the current replacement of the MX-300R radio within the US military? Is it any from MX-1000/-2000 or Saber I-R/II-R Securenet (DES) or System Saber or Astro Saber with Securenet capabilities? Would greatly appreciate the answer. -- Jan Bury e-mail: yahya@orient.uw.edu.pl ed) It's hard to say just what might be in use as a replacement for the MX-300R as we know the military has purchased many suitable models. It is known that the Air force is using Sabre's in both UHF & VHF(version unknown), and that the Army has purchased quantities of HT-1000's. A long list of other commercial types have also been purchased. Whether any particular one of these is being used as a direct replacement for the MX-300R is unknown. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Navy Seal's & the MX-300R, Dennis, While searching the world wide web, I ran across the navyseals equipment page: http://www.navyseals.com/equip/assault.html Text of interest: "Commander The Assault Force Commander is often jocked up and on the ground with the Assault Team. This man will be a Lieutenant of higher, and in overall tactical command of the operation. He is in communication with the Task Unit HQ with his PRC 117 (carried by his radioman), and the sniper element and shooters with his MX-300R UHF. The Commander usually patrols in the patrol leader's position, but will enter a room at the end of the "train" to be one step removed from the chaos of the initial entries and to better control his team." Inset Photo: http://www.navyseals.com/equip/commander.html So heres some more proof of military use of the MX-300R by the Seal teams. Ralph Hogan WB4TUR Huntsville, AL. ralph.hogan@vmic.com ed) I wonder how old the info on this web site is? Motorola stopped the support of the MX series around 1992. All the available parts today are left overs from then. Seal teams must have surely updated their equipment by now if for no other reason than an inability to properly support those venerable old MX's. At least we now know another user of these most exotic radios. A reminder that a radio need not be green, nor have common military nomenclature affixed to be significant! Again, it is our knowledge of a radio's use, in conjunction with who used it, and how, that make them historically significant, and a reminder of those who used them. Indeed there are many a radio set having bonafide military nomenclature, and appearance, that did not receive even a fraction of the tactical use we are now learning the MX family did(among others). *********************************************** NEW MEMBER; Sir, Mark Blair has given me your address as being the govenor of the Military Radio list. I would like to become a member of your organization, although I am only interested in radios as a fringe hobby. One of my main hobbies is the restoration of WWII military vehicles, and hence the military radios; however, I'm a jeep guy first, and a radio buff by association. Unfortunately, I'm one of those guys who firmly believes that electronic devices are operated by smoke. Once you allow the smoke to escape from your device, it will never operate again. I'v a very heavy industrial electrical contractor, and often work with voltages up to 35,000 volts (once a 110KV) and the smoke principal holds for this as well, only bigger sparks. About myself. I'm 53 DoD 10-8-46, male, caucasian, married (25 years - same woman), one surviving child Patrick (16) who IS a radio buff and a 2 meter ham, KF4YPJ, I'm a live long resident of Hueytown, Alabama (13 miles west-southwest of Birmingham). I collect both Imperial German Military artifacts, primarily Luger Pistols, and edged weapons, and, as mentioned above, collect and restore military vehicles, primarily from the WWII era - while I do have a couple of later vehicles as well. (16 all together; however, some will never run again, but give up their parts that others may live.) As a part of the military vehicles addiction, I have purchased and wanted to install a SCR-610 tactical radio in one of my jeeps. I discovered that the radio mount the FT-250 was almost impossible to find. Being an engineer, I looked at a friends and decided "I can make that!" and proceeded to make them. I currently can make a 100% accurate reproduction of the FT-250 (if anyone needs one - they're for sale). My question and search. I have one sold to a man who wants to install it in a WC-56 command car. The command car normally has a table and two or three radios installed; however, he wanted the smaller set. I need to know if anyone has the original support legs to mount the FT-250 in the command car. Attached is a scan of the TM showing this installation. Any help would be appreciated. Tom Campbell - Birmingham, Alabama USA *********************************************** HUMOR; Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good. Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand. Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out? Love is grand; divorce is a hundred grand. Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should both be changed regularly and for the same reason. An optimist thinks that this is the best possible world. A pessimist fears that this is true. There is always death and taxes; however death doesn't get worse every year. People will accept your ideas much more readily if you tell them that Benjamin Franklin said it first. It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. I don't mind going nowhere as long as it's an interesting path. Anything free is worth what you pay for it. Indecision is the key to flexibility. It hurts to be on the cutting edge. If it ain't broke, fix it till it is. I don't get even, I get odder. In just two days, tomorrow will be yesterday. I always wanted to be a procrastinator, never got around to it. Dijon vu - the same mustard as before. I am a nutritional overachiever. My inferiority complex is not as good as yours. I am having an out of money experience. I plan on living forever. So far, so good. I am in shape. Round is a shape. Not afraid of heights - afraid of widths. Practice safe eating - always use condiments. A day without sunshine is like night. I have kleptomania, but when it gets bad, I take something for it. If marriage were outlawed, only outlaws would have in-laws. I am not a perfectionist. My parents were though. Life is an endless struggle full of frustrations and challenges, but eventually you find a hair stylist you like. You're getting old when you get the same sensation from a rocking chair that you once got from a roller coaster. One of life's mysteries is how a two pound box of candy can make a woman gain five pounds. It's frustrating when you know all the answers, but nobody bothers to ask you the questions. The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. Time may be a great healer, but it's also a lousy beautician. Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever. Age doesn't always bring wisdom, Sometimes age comes alone. Life not only begins at forty, it begins to show. You don't stop laughing because you grow old, you grow old because you stopped laughing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- THE WIFE OF THE REVEREND TELLS ABOUT HER DAY :THE OTHER DAY I WENT TO THE LOCAL RELIGIOUS BOOK STORE WHERE I SAW A BUMPER STICKER HONK IF YOU LOVE JESUS I BOUGHT IT AND PUT IT ON THE BACK BUMPER OF OUR CAR, AND I'M REALLY GLAD THAT I DID, WHAT AN UPLIFTING EXPERIENCE FOLLOWED. I WAS STOPPED AT THE LIGHT OF A BUSY INTERSECTION, JUST LOST IN THOUGHT ABOUT THE LORD, AND DIDN'T NOTICE THAT THE LIGHT HAD CHANGED, THAT BUMPER STICKER REALLY WORKED I FOUND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO LOVED JESUS, WHY THE GUY BEHIND STARTED TO HONK LIKE CRAZY. HE MUST REALLY HAVE LOVED THE LORD BECAUSE PRETTY SOON HE LEANED OUT OF HIS WINDOW AND "YELLED JESUS CHRIST" As LOUD AS HE COULD IT WAS LIKE A FOOTBALL GAME WITH HIM SHOUTING, "GO.... JESUS CHRIST, GO! ! EVERYONE ELSE STARTED HONKING TOO, SO I LEANED OUT THE WINDOW AND WAVED AND SMILED AT ALL THOSE LOVING PEOPLE. THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME GUY FROM FLORIDA BACK THERE, BECAUSE I COULD HEAR HIM SHOUTING SOMETHING ABOUT A SUNNY BEACH, AND I SAW HIM WAVING IN A FUNNY WAY WITH ONLY HIS MIDDLE FINGER STUCK IN THE AIR~ I ASKED MY TWO KIDS WHAT THAT MEANT. THEY KIND OF SQUIRMED AND LOOK AT EACH OTHER, GIGGLED AND TOLD ME THAT IT WAS THE HAWAIIAN GOOD LUCK SIGN I LEANED OUT THE WINDOW AND GAVE HIM THE GOOD LUCK SIGN BACK. SEVERAL CARS BEHIND, A VERY NICE BLACK MAN STEPPED OUT OF HIS CAR AND YELLED SOMETHING. I COULDN'T HEAR HIM VERY WELL, BUT IT SOUNDED LIKE "MOTHER SOMETHING", MAYBE HE WAS FROM FLORIDA TO. HE MUST REALLY HAVE LOVED THE LORD. A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WERE SO CAUGHT UP IN THE JOY OF THE MOMENT THAT THEY WERE WALKING FROM THEIR CARS TOWARD ME. I BET THEY WANTED TO PRAY. BUT JUST THEN I NOTICED THAT THE LIGHT WAS GREEN AND I STEPPED ON THE GAS. AND A GOOD THING I DID BECAUSE I WAS THE ONLY DRIVER To GET ACROSS THE INTERSECTION. I LOOKED BACK AT THEM STANDING THERE. I LEANED OUT THE WINDOW, GAVE THEM A BIG SMILE AND HELD UP MY HAWAIIAN GOOD LUCK SIGN AND I DROVE AWAY. PRAISE THE LORD FOR SUCH WONDERFUL FOLKS! Amen. " ----------------------------------------------------------------- TOP TEN CLINTON POST-IMPEACHMENT PLANS 10. Spend more quality time with Chelsea and her 13 half brothers and sisters. 9. Tour the nations' prisons to improve conditions, visit friends. 8. Write book: "The American Presidency: An Oral History." 7. Buy a Hooter's franchise. 6. Catch up on eight-year stack of "Penthouses." 5. Search for a new outlet for well developed lying and cheating skills. 4. Continue work-counseling interns. 3. Stop using fake names in all those personal ads. 2. Take little Buddy out three times a day - also walk the dog. 1. Get to know those Gore girls better. -------------------- George Washington, America's Father of the Nation was famous as an honest man. Once as a young boy he was confronted by his father who asked, "George, are you the one who chopped down the cherry tree, you naughty boy?" And he answered, "Father, I cannot tell a lie. Yes, I chopped down the cherry tree." After this, he was always known as an honest man. Now lets go to Bad Boy Bill Clinton's childhood. Here's an incident. "Look here Bill, did you chop down the cherry tree?" "No, dad." "I think you are lying." "No, no, no! I swear I did NOT chop down the cherry tree." "Son, I saw you out here with your axe. Your punishment will be much worse for you if you lie. Now, tell me the truth!" "Dad, I answered your question truthfully. Still, I must take complete responsibility for all my actions. While my answer was legally and technically accurate, I did not volunteer information. Indeed, dad, I did cause the cherry tree to be lying on the ground. To do this was wrong. It constituted a critical lapse in judgment and a personal failure on my part for which I am solely and completely responsible. I know my answer to you gave a false impression. I misled you, my own father. I deeply regret that. I can only tell you I was motivated by many factors. First, by a desire to protect myself from the embarrassment of my own conduct. I was also very concerned about protecting Mom from this shock. What I did, Dad, was use a saw to cause the cherry tree to fall. Only after the tree was already down did I go get my axe to chop off individual branches. So, I chopped off branches, but sawed down the tree. Look at the saw cut on the stump and the axe cuts on the branches. Therefore, legally and technically, I told the truth. I would also like to caution you, Father, to think about the person who first reported my chopping activities to you and ask yourself, "What was their motivation to represent my personal and private tree chopping in such a scurrilous and public way?" Most importantly, Father, I ask you to turn away from the spectacle of this fallen tree and to return our attention to a solid family relationship." -------------------------- Nominated for quote of the year is the statement made by Representative Dick Armey, who when asked if he were in the President's place, would he resign, responded: "If I were in the President's place I would not get a chance to resign. I would be lying in a pool of my own blood hearing Mrs. Armey standing over me saying, "How do I reload this damn thing?" --------------------- Hillary and Chelsea are sitting around the table having a mother/daughter talk. Hillary ask Chelsea, "You have been going to college for awhile now, Have you had sex yet?" Chelsea says, "Well, not according to Dad." -------------------------- TOP TEN WAYS TO KNOW THAT YOU JOINED THE WRONG CHURCH 1. The church bus has gun racks. 2. The church staff consist of the Pastor, Senior Pastor, Associate Pastor and Socio-pastor. 3. The Bible they use is the 'Dr. Seuss Version'. 4. There's an ATM machine in the lobby 5. The Choir wears leather robes. 6. The Worship Services are B.Y.O.S. -- 'Bring your own snake'. 7. There's no cover charge, but communion is a two-drink minimum. 8. The Pastor regularly attends meetings at Las Vegas & Atlantic City. 9. The Usher asks, 'Smoking or Non-smoking'?. 10. The Women's Quartet are all married to the Pastor. *********************************************** The preceding was a product of the"Military Collector Group Post", an international email magazine dedicated to the preservation of history and the equipment that made it. Unlimited circulation of this material is authorized so long as the proper credits to the original authors, and publisher or this group are included. For more information concerning this group or membership contact Dennis Starks at, . A list of selected articles of interest to members can be seen at: http://www.softcom.net/users/buzz/backmail.html ***********************************************