From: military-radio-guy Full-Name: Dennis R Starks To: military radio collectors#4 Fcc: Sent Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 05:58:51 Subject: MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, June 24/99 Message-ID: <19990624.055753.8983.1.military-radio-guy@juno.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, June 24/99 Index: ANNOUNCEMENT; PRC-25, FORGOTTEN LEGEND; Part IV, By Dennis Starks MEMBERS WRITE; PRC-25 Saga, Getting Navy Manuals? Humor Section? HUMOR; *********************************************** ANNOUNCEMENT; For a real laugh, check out the crap at: http://www.ammil.com/pn_4714.htm If you don't have internet access, heres the just of what you'll find: H-33 handsets for $169, H-250 handsets for $70.00 PRC-77 for $2000 PRC-25 for $1600 whip antenna for above $36(with rubber spring $72) ST-138 backpack harnesses for above, $85 Nicad batteries for above $135 charger for above batteries $360 PRC-6's with 4 to 6 mile range, completely checked out, "better than new!", only $120 PRT-4, $170 PRT-4 & PRR-9 set, $300 PRC-14, $300 This Florida based company boast business sence 1971 (though I don't see how!) Volume Discounts Available. (I wounder what kind of volume could the the prices where they belong?) All products subject to prior sale. (I don't think there's much danger of that) Not responsible for typographical errors or ommissions. (maybe that's what all those stupid prices, and crazy claims are!!??) I can't help but wonder if anyone has been dumb enough to get duped by this company. Dennis *********************************************** PRC-25, FORGOTTEN LEGEND; Part IV, By Dennis Starks Forward, By the early 1970's, the new PRC-77's had become hopelessly intermixed with the old PRC-25's among all the using armed forces(regardless of country). Those who still had PRC-25's in inventory refused to turn them in being convinced of their value under fire.. Confusion was now to the extent that all official reports, manuals, etc would use their designations interchangeably, as indeed the radios themselves were for all practical purposes. For this reason it now becomes near impossible to separated the exploits of the two different models of the same radio. So we'll continue this story with that of the successor to the PRC-25's 'Legacy', the 'Ultimate PRC-25', the 'PRC-77'. PRC-25 Legacy, History repeats itself! Just as the replacement for the SCR-300 was conceived just as it was introduced, and the PRC-10 had been replaced on paper a year before it had even been established in the field. The first PRC-25's had been in effect replaced before they were born. From the very beginning certain requirements had been in place for it's final version. The first, and primary priority was the elimination of it's output tube resulting in a %100 solid state radio. This early goal was for the PRC-25, and was never intended to result in the PRC-77. But as we will see, the original plans were foiled. It would seem that while the PRC-25 had been officially adopted as Standard "A" in 1961, this might have only been an expedient means of relieving pressure on the development-infrastructure. Adoption, did not mean that the sets would then go into immediate large scale production(which it didn't), but it might provide a means of stalling for time while development continued, and prove an effective ploy for obtaining the funds needed for the purchase of limited-production units and their continued field trials. Indeed, the evidence shows that all those who where familiar with the PRC-25 as of 1965 had been exposed to it as the result of these "Field Trials" being conducted as late as 1964, and.not because of it's issue to any as standard equipment. But this Adoption/Extended-Development tactic backfired when in 1965 General Westmoreland issued his "urgent battlefield requirement". As the PRC-25 had been officially adopted as "Standard A", the powers that were could now provide no excuse for not supplying the radios especially as they already had a small quantity in hand. So these trials were brought to an abrupt halt. The unfinished PRC-25 being forced into an early, and hasty mass production by a completely unprepared industry. It would arrive In-Country with virtually no support structure, as one had not yet been established. Further development must then, out of necessity, take place under fire from hostile forces in actual combat, as indeed it did. We might conclude then that the development of the PRC-25 was never completed, and the emergency of war forced it's use prematurely. The results of this trial-by-fire would be a radio set that would not see a competent rival for near 30 years. Regardless of the PRC-25's premature obligations to war, work towards the replacement of it's output tube continued. Inadequacies began to show up in combat that would in turn be added to the list of it's planned refinements. Most had to do with ancillary equipment such as handsets, batteries, support equipment and logistics. All were quickly remedied. But some real problems also surfaced. The first was interference when used in close proximity to other radios, both on receive and creating interference when transmitting. This previously unforeseen problem became apparent when trying to use two like radios back-to-back as a repeater under certain conditions. But it became intolerable when they were combined with dozens of other radios(some more powerful) at congested communications sites. All having their antennas mounted inches from each other on common, overcrowded, towers. So included in the PRC-25's refinement package where steps to reduce spurious emissions during transmit, and provide it's receiver with better selectivity. In 1965, just as all the problems were solved, and refinements thought to be completed(including the replacement of it's output tube), the Army threw a monkey wrench into the works. It added a requirement for compatibility with speech security equipment(X mode). This would result in a delay of two more years before the deployment of the ultimate PRC-25.(These two years where added as the result of bureaucratic mistrust, and foot dragging, rather than any limitations in technology, or industry.) Birth of The Ultimate PRC-25, In 1965, the National Security Agency(that government body having jurisdiction over all encryption equipment, and methods) was asked to develop speech security equipment for tactical units. They were at first reluctant to produce cryptographic equipment for combat infantryman that would undoubtedly be captured. But by January 1966, the NSA would agree to develop the device for portable radios. The NSA and the U.S.Army Electronics Command then designed a new radio from "a modified PRC-25" that could connect to the new speech security equipment. X mode is born. PRC-77 ?, Not yet ! The new radio was in fact not "new" at all, it was simply a refined PRC-25! Again, the PRC-77 was not the result of successfully replacing the PRC-25's output tube, this had already been done. Nor was it the result of any other circuit or design changes. It was all these refinements combined, and when joined by the X mode ability, and the deciding factor that 10's of thousands of the earlier radios had already been fielded as the result of the emergency of war. A positive method of distinguishing between the two was now needed. A designation such as PRC-25"B" was simply no longer adequate. So now, (less than one year after PRC-25's were first deployed to Vietnam),.the PRC-77 is born! If General Westmoreland's "urgent requirement" had been delayed only a couple of months, there might never have been a need for the designation of PRC-77 affixed to the radio that received it! By the fall of 1967 the PRC-77 was still not yet available. Not at all because of any deficiencies in the radio, or protracted development time. All problems had been worked out long before(PRC-25), all testing had been completed, the PRC-77 was in production, the radio was ready! It was again NSA foot dragging, combined with minor problems with the new encryption equipment, that would delay deployment of the PRC-77 till May of 1968. By December, 9000 new radios would finally be in the hands of the troops. The new PRC-77 was externally identical to the PRC-25 in every respect. Without it's data tag in place, it is absolutely impossible to tell the difference between the two. Once opened up, only a trained eye can even tell the difference, and most of it's internal modules are interchangeable. But it did boast several improvements; it's receiver had been upgraded with better selectivity, it's transmitter's spurious emissions had been reduced, and of course, the output tube had been eliminated(though some sources will report an increase in RF output/range, this is simply not true). Lastly, the radio's audio bandwidth had been widened to accommodate the new X mode requirement. This would eventually allow the fringe benefit of using various data modes. These modes included MCW*, TTY, and modern day Packet. *(MCW was used by Australians who did not yet have access to the highly restricted U.S. voice encryption equipment. These devices were protected to the point of paranoia until the mid 70's. Neither had they developed systems of their own. MCW then was their only means of transmitting secure messages. This was accomplished by using an external tone oscillator, and CW key. The same method was also practiced by various para-military groups being supplied equipment by the CIA.) Dennis Starks; Collector/Historian Midwest Military Communications Museum email: military-radio-guy@juno.com --------------------------------------------------------------- If you think this story is at a close, think again! We have another 20 years or more yet to cover. We'd like to hear of your experiences with the PRC-25, and -77, if you have 'ANY', LET US KNOW! Especially military use within the last 10 years. I'd also like any information on Foreign production of these radios, model numbers, etc. I already have a long list of PRC designated ones, but some countries had not yet adopted this system when they started using/producing the PRC-25 or PRC-77 Thanks Dennis ********************************************** MEMBERS WRITE; *PRC-25 Saga, Bravo, your article was really good. Sometimes I think you are really smart. Jim Hopper *Hi Dennis Just read the latest installment on the PRC-25 saga. I think that you have done a terrific job on this article. Keep up the good work!!!! Not too much new here, I spent all weekend at the Ft. Snelling museum sorting out the fuel system on a M-42 Duster. Happy to say that it was running when I left on Sunday ! Have a good one. Kevin Hough KG0QE Farmington, MN. KG0QE@juno.com *Great piece, Dennis. Love it! I will put it on the mil list soon as I can if you want it archived. "Soon as I can" right now means "eventually" BTW, with my PRC-25 being from a 1962 Magnavox contract, and all its accessories as well, ( and I have asked before probably ) does this make it special in any way? Now, this don't mean I am gonna run and stick it up on Ebay, just would make me want to hang onto it a bit more.... :-) Thanks Tom Norris ed) I don't know if your 1962 Magnavox would warrant any higher value, but it certainly is different as it was built while RCA was still the sole source provider, and before the 1965 "urgent requirement". I've never looked at the half dozen or so that I have to see who built them, nor the dozens that I've owned in the past. Should I be ashamed? *Misc ramblings on the PRC 25 1964 -1967 I was stationed in Pirmases Germany, which was also a Signal Depot PDO yard. I made many visits to the PDO yard and began to see many PRC 10s and PRC 6s showing up as scrap. Also a radio I had never seen before. It was the RT542(VRC 48 ). Based on this, I assumed that new radios were coming into the system. Keep in mind that, I was with a nuclear weapons related unit and we uesed the USAREUR telephone lines for communication ( Iron Virgin) and out on the SASCOM sites they had an ITT system connected to a central at Heilelberg. As a result I never saw a tactical radio. 1967 I went to Vietnam and was with the Technical Intelligence unit. We were not authorized radios. In mid 1968, we got in a recaptured US radio which we all thought was a new US radio as none of us had ever seen it before. We were dissapointed when one of the older NCs told us it was the GRC 9 of 1950 vintage. First time I saw a PRC 25 was when we were trying to restore one of the re captured sets to operational status for use by our team in I CTZ. Captain Paul Marro, the team leader wanted it so he could stay in touch with the USMC units in case he ran into trouble on his many excursions to the field. I saw it but did not get to use it. It was not until 1973 and then with the USAR/NG that I had the opportunity to make use of one of these sets. William L. Howard THE WILLIAM L. HOWARD ORDNANCE TECHNICAL INTELLIGENCE MUSEUM ed) I have in the past often wondered what was required to jolt people enough that I'd start hearing from you all. I still don't know, but was very happy to receive all the above input. --------------------------------------------------------------- Getting Navy Manuals? What's the procedure for getting a Navy manual when you know the Navships number and the title but not the Navy stock number? Jim Haynes ed) I don't have any idea, I've never tried the Navy, maybe somebody else out there has. --------------------------------------------------------------- P's & Q's, Dennis -- As an amateur hobbyist printer (I print my own QSL cards, setting the type by hand) I always thought the business about "mind your p's and q's" came from the fact that as one sets type upside down, it is easy to mix up the lower case p's and q's, as you can easily see. This is not to say that a British barkeep telling the rowdies to mind their pints and quarts couldn't be true, but I like the type-related explanation better. Yes, I read the radio-related stuff, too! Great job. Best, Chuck Brumley KB2E ed) I've heard your version too. I like the story of the "whole nine yards" or have I sent that one out yet? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Humor Section? Dennis, I really enjoy the information that I have been receiving on the PRC 77's etc. I have always been interested in military radios and signal equipment. I always try and plan my vacations around visiting a military museum. I need your help on one item, since I don't have a computer at home my only access to E-Mail is at work. I would like to get everything except the "jokes!" I really value the affiliation with your organization. Thanks for all of the work you do preparing the material for the Military Collector Group Post. Jerry ed) If your asking that I filter out the jokes for the post sent to you, I'm sorry but this is impossible as your copy is sent along with that of 50 other people(one of 4 address folders containing group members). I personally find the Humor section a pain in the butt too, but many of our members just live to see it each day when they get to work. Used Computers are dirt cheep, and a 386 is all that's needed for Juno(4meg ram/10meg of avail HD) and Juno is free. Suiteable 386 computors can be had for as little as $100. So ya got no excuse not to have one at home too. ********************************************** HUMOR; Noah's Ark Today.... And the Lord spoke to Noah and said, "In six months I'm going to make it rain until the whole earth is covered with water and all the evil people are destroyed. But I want to save a few good people, and two of every kind of living thing on the planet. I am commanding you to build an Ark. "And in a flash of lightning, He delivered the specifications for an Ark." "Okay," said Noah, trembling with fear and fumbling with the blueprints. "Six months, and it starts to rain," thundered the Lord. "You'd better have the Ark completed, or learn to swim for a very long time." Six months passed, the skies clouded up and rain began to fall. The Lord saw that Noah was sitting in his front yard, weeping...... And there was no Ark. "Noah," shouted the Lord, "Where is the Ark?" "Lord, please forgive me!" begged Noah. "I did my best. But there were big problems. " " First, I had to get a building permit for the Ark construction project and your plans didn't meet code. So I had to hire an engineer to re-draw the plans. Then I got into a big fight over whether or not the Ark needed a fire sprinkler system." "Then my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planning commission." "Then I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark, because there was a ban on cutting trees to save the Spotted Owl. I had to convince the US Fish and Wildlife that I need the wood to save the Owls. But, they wouldn't let me catch any owls. So, no owls." "The carpenters formed a union and went out on strike. I had to negotiate a settlement with the National Labor Relations Board before anyone would pick up a saw or hammer. Now we have sixteen carpenters going on the boat, and still no owls." "Then I started gathering up animals, and got sued by an animal rights group. They objected to me taking only two of each animal." "Just when I got the suit dismissed, EPA notified me that I couldn't complete the Ark without filing an environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn't take kindly to the idea that they had no jurisdiction over the conduct of a Supreme Being." "Then the Army Corps of Engineers wanted a map of the proposed new flood plain. I sent them a globe." "Right now, I'm still trying to resolve a complaint from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission over how many Croatians I'm supposed to hire." "The IRS has seized all my assets, claiming I'm trying to avoid paying taxes by leaving the country. And I just go a notice from the state about owing them some kind of use tax. I really don't think I can finish the Ark for at least another five years," Noah wailed. The sky began to clear. The sun began to shine. A rainbow arched across the sky. Noah looked up and smiled. "You mean you're not going to destroy the Earth?" Noah asked hopefully. "No," said the Lord sadly. "The government already has." ---------------------------------------------------------------- A young gay man calls home and tells his Jewish mother that he has decided to go back into the closet because he has met a wonderful girl and they are going to be married. He tells his mother that he is sure she will be happier since he knows that his lifestyle has been very disturbing to her She responds that she is indeed delighted and asks tentatively, "I suppose it would be too much to hope that she would be Jewish?" He tells her that not only is the girl Jewish but from a wealthy Beverly Hills family. She admits she is overwhelmed by the news, and asks, "What is her name?" He answers, "Monica Lewinsky". There is a pause, then his mother asks, "What happened to that nice black boy you were dating last year?" ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bear Advisory In response to the rising frequency of human-grizzly bear conflicts, the Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters, and fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert while in the field. We advise that outdoorsmen wear little bells on their clothing so as not to startle bears that aren't expecting them; outdoorsmen should also carry pepper spray with them in case of a bear encounter. It is a good idea to watch out for signs of bear activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat. Black bear scat is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear scat is larger, has little bells in it and smells like pepper. ---------------------------------------------------------------- In a mental institution a nurse walks into a room and sees a patient acting like he's driving a car. The nurse asks him, "Charlie, what are you doing?" Charlie replied, "Driving to Chicago!" The nurse wishes him a good trip and leaves the room. The next day the nurse enters Charlie's room just as he stops driving his imaginary car and asks, "Well Charlie, how are you doing?" Charlie says, "I just got into Chicago" "Great," replied the nurse. The nurse leaves Charlie's room and goes across the hall into Bob's room, and finds Bob sitting on his bed furiously masturbating. Shocked, she asks, "Bob, what are you doing?!" Bob says, "I'm screwing Charlie's wife while he's in Chicago!" ---------------------------------------------------------------- The teacher gave her fifth grade class an assignment: get their parents to tell them a story with a moral at the end of it. The next day the kids came back and one by one began to tell their stories. Kathy said, "My father's a farmer and we have a lot of egg-laying hens. One time we were taking our eggs to market in a basket on the front seat of the pickup when we hit a bump in the road and all the eggs went flying and broke and made a mess" "And what's the moral of the story?" asked the teacher. "Don't put all your eggs in one basket!" "Very good," said the teacher. "Now, Lucy?" Our family are farmers too. But we raise chickens for the meat market. We had a dozen eggs one time, but when they hatched we only got ten live chicks. And the moral to this story is, don't count your chickens until they're hatched." "That was a fine story Lucy. Johnny do you have a story to share?" "Yes, ma'am, my daddy told me this story about my uncle Bob. Uncle Bob was a pilot in Vietnam and his plane got hit. He had to bail out over enemy territory and all he had was a bottle of whiskey, a machine gun and a machete. He drank the whiskey on the way down so it wouldn't break and then he landed right in the middle of 100 enemy troops. He killed seventy of them with the machine gun until he ran out of bullets, then he killed twenty more with the machete till the blade broke and then he killed the last ten with his bare hands." "Good heavens," said the horrified teacher, " What kind of moral did your daddy tell you from that horrible story?" "Don't fuck with Uncle Bob when he's been drinking." ---------------------------------------------------------------- The woman's husband had been slipping in and out of a coma for several months, yet she had stayed by his bedside every single day. One day,when he came to, he motioned for her to come nearer. As she sat by him, he whispered, eyes full of tears, "You know what? You have been with me all through all of the bad times. When I got fired, you were there to support me. When my business failed, you were there. When I got shot,you were by my side. When we lost the house, you stayed right here.When my health started failing, you were still by my side. You know what?" "What dear?" she gently asked, smiling as her heart began to fill with warmth. "I think you're bad luck." ********************************************** The preceding was a product of the"Military Collector Group Post", an international email magazine dedicated to the preservation of history and the equipment that made it. Unlimited circulation of this material is authorized so long as the proper credits to the original authors, and publisher or this group are included. For more information concerning this group or membership contact Dennis Starks at, . A list of selected articles of interest to members can be seen at: http://www.softcom.net/users/buzz/backmail.html ***********************************************