From: military-radio-guy Full-Name: Dennis R Starks To: military radio collectors#1 Fcc: Sent Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 03:08:49 Subject: MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, July 9/99 Message-ID: <19990709.030751.16015.5.military-radio-guy@juno.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, July 9/99 Index: ANNOUNCEMENTS; MVPA CONVENTION; CW KEY DISCUSSION; DESERT STORM SERIES DISCUSSION; MEMBERS WRITE; Brown Nose, Mil Paint Color Codes, 12vdc vice 6vdc on Inverters/PRC-25 Series, Field Day Antenna? German "Panzer" Headphones, War Time 2 Meter Freqs Needed, NEW MEMBERS; Jan Bury Mark Whittaker OBIT; Anatoly Moskalenko HUMOR; *********************************************** ANNOUNCEMENTS; I will be at the PHD Hamfest in Kansas City Mo. this weekend, and next Sunday is the Washington Mo. Hamfest. I'll have a couple radios up on 51mc to listen up for you all. You don't have a radio on 51mc you say? For shame! Well look for my table then, there will be a PRC-25 there turned on and ready to go, you can use it. Dennis *********************************************** MVPA CONVENTION; This is another view of the Military Vehicle convention. I did not have a table so had to wait until Thursday mourning to get in. I stopped counting at 80 vehicles on desplay, I am sure there were more. As to the radio I saw the following RT-542 $600 PRC-68 300 a pair RT-70 $30 RT-67 $45 SCR-300 $175 PRC-47 $250 RT-1439 $1500 PRC-25 &PCC? supply $400 PRT-4 all black with battery case with holes $20 GRC-9 $80 BC-1306 with TRC-2 rcvr $50 and the BC-620 for $1600 with the exception of the PRT-4,GRC-9, and BC-1306 all were there Friday when I left. The best desplay that I saw was Paul Theken's SCR-499 set. It is the ground mounted set and he had it working and making contacts on Friday night. He also had a BC669 on desplay. Also saw the ship radio console that Dick Dilman and Jim are working on in San Francisco. Bruce WD9GHK BRUCE HAFFNER WD9GHK "THE VOICE OF VICTORY" TINLEY PARK, IL Hallicrafters-1946 E-MAIL: haffner@mcs.net *********************************************** CW KEY DISCUSSION; Dennis, I have a J-38 key, in fairly good condition. I'm told it is worth about $100. While I will gladly accept $$ for it, I would much rather trade it for something. Please post this to the group, for those key collectors out there. ----------------------- Whoever told you a J-38 is worth $100 is full of crap! It's the most common CW key ever made, and it was still in production in the early 1980's after well over 65 years(even Japan made them as the JJ-38). Currently they are available as NOS surplus from several commercial vendors for $25- $35ea. The most common hamfest price is $15-$20. Anybody collecting Keys would already have several. They are of the most interest to users, and to a few who wish to have a military key to go with their military radios(most all HF types from 1930-1985 used the J-38 or a slightly modified version). Dennis ----------------------- I may be mistaken on the nomenclature. Correct me if I'm wrong (I usually am) but I now realize the J-38 is a leg key. Yes/No? The key I was referring to is a WW 2 vintage key. It is enclosed in a sort of case, square with rounded corners, with just the arm of the key sticking out. It has a sort of hinge affair, and appears to be part of some sort of "portable" radio set. Does this sound familiar? The reason I said J-38 was that Tom Perera referred to it as such. However, I now realize I mis-identified it. ----------------------- No, J-38 is a generic desk top key with bakelite base and shorting bar. Some were adapted for leg iron use and designated J-45(BC-1306, & GRC-9), KY-116(GRC-106), KY-562(PRC-74), all are identical except for the cord. Many a J-45 were adapted for use in place of the others either via a connector adapter, or by changing the cord. We purchased a bunch of the J-45s, some with WW-II date codes, new in sealed bags for $20ea early this year. Fair radio now has a selection for around $35-$45ea, and Steve Haney still has new J-45's for $35 retail. If the top/case of your key is made of metal, and can be removed via two screws, and the base has two key-hole slots in it, this is a J-48 for the SCR-284(BC-654). This is a sought after key, and is worth around $50(if the original cord is there), but it has no hinge arrangement. Similar Navy keys were made for other portable s, but these will have a long number on them and no J-anything, and are most often water tight, and flame proof, or simi-flame proof. In general, military keys are far more common than commercial ones, as there was far more of them made over a far greater time period. One exception to this rule are those keys made for a specific radio, or application. The SCR-284 had a key peculiar to it, as did the Navy TBX, and TBY. These keys, though rare, and highly sought after by those with the radios, are still not particularly valuable. The most valuable military keys that were made were the vibroplexes(J-40 or -44 I think), and they will only demand $75-$100 dependant on condition. All others top out at $50(even the rare ones). The only ones that will exceed these values in a military key, are those large examples used shipboard with spark gap transmitters, I/E WW-I, these will sometimes bring over $1000(especially if it can be confirmed what ship they were used on). Dennis *********************************************** DESERT STORM SERIES DISCUSSION; The below was received from an enthusiast after his reading our article on it's web site. Sir, I am an amateur radio operator and I am interested in military communications. I welcomed your web-page on the Iraqi sets from the 1991 Gulf War with pleasure, since I spent a year in Kuwait researching the war's history and learning Arabic at the Kuwait University. I would be interested very much in joining the Military Radio Collectors' Post Group that you run with Mr. Dennis Starks. As far as the page is concerned, I welcomed the technical information on the variety of both NATO and Warsaw Pact radios used by the Iraqis. However I noticed, that there was a lack of information what kind of Iraqi troops have used the sets mentioned in the article. At any case, I was astonished that the Ba'ath Party regime managed to purchase so many types of radios both from the West and the Soviet Block. When I was researching the matter in Kuwait, I got two very interesting books (both in Arabic and English) published by the Center for Research and Studies on Kuwait. There I found samples with translations of the Iraqi military documents from the 2nd August invasion of Kuwait and the war with the Coalition. Since they are mostly dealing with the history, there is very little about communications. However there are conclusions by the Iraqi commanders (like "Lessons learnt") from the operations, which may be interesting to you. Generally they wrote about the lack of co-ordination, proper radio communications in their advance toward Kuwait City, so they had even to reduce the messages traffic, for example to the word "Nasr" (in Arabic: victory) when Special Forces conquered Kuwait City in the early morning of 2nd August. I guess that more advanced radios, including the secure Racal sets, also mentioned in those two books, were used by the elements of the Republican Guard (RG), 65th or 66th Special Forces Brigades (with 8th Regiment, RG in Kuwait) - Saddam's elite troops - while poor quality radios found their use among ordinary infantrymen ("poor and hungry people", by Kuwaitis who saw and described the invasion). In conclusion, even simple radios might have caused troubles to the Iraqi soldiers. The heat was awful in August, 1990 (approx. +43 deg. Celsius), also I guess the range of communications was limited, although the terrain was flat. On one page I read: "Radio communications were not adequately secured [?!] by coded Racal sets due to the speedy advance, the long distance between the units and the HQ, and the presence of plenty of high tension power lines" (from the Hammurabi Forces Command, RG: "Analysis of Kuwait Liberation Combat, August 2, 1990" [note the rhetoric], 5 September 1990, signed by Lt. Col. Bashir Rahim Muhammad, 16th SF Brig). I am interested in exchange of information on this subject and joining the Group. Yours sincerely, - - -- Jan Bury Warsaw, Poland e-mail: yahya@orient.uw.edu.pl ------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Howard forwarded your message to me in regard to the web page article, and your desire to join our group. I sent you an invitation to join the group several days ago, but as of yet have not received a response. Though Bill did supply some data on Warsaw Pact radios for the article, he didn't write any of it other than his introduction, and parting comments. The text, and all data on the equipment was written by me, with supplemental data on some radios being supplied by one of our group members who wouldn't allow me to include his name. I wish we did have more information about the Iraqi units that communications equipment were liberated from, but as it was, we were lucky to even ascertain, and prove, that many of the radios that turned up indeed came from the Gulf War. When we were lucky enough to acquire radios from the persons who actually captured them, they seldom even knew where they were at the time, much less what enemy unit they were facing. I count myself luck to have been able to document the U.S. units that actually captured some of the examples in my collection. Since I wrote the article, evidence has surfaced to prove our speculation about U.S. equipment in their hands. Some as it was captured from Iran during their war with them. Others that had been purchased directly by them(very limited quantities) before they had started their belligerence. One case in point is a Harris RF-280. Harris records proved that this radio was originally sold to the Shaw of Iran in 1979. It was then apparently captured by Iraq, then again by a U.S. soldier who now uses it on the ham bands. Arabic writing on the radio shows Iranian and Iraqi unit markings. Another example is of a militarized GE/Ericson commercial VHF mobile. It had been sold to Iraq by the U.S. company before hostilities. It is possible that these examples are of the few that filtered through the system to come home with troops because they bore no U.S. military nomenclature. As Iran began building the U.S. PRC-77 for themselves, and exportation in 1986, we can assume that these too were captured by Iraq. But they, for reasons outlined in the article, would not have been allowed to be brought home with returning troops. Dennis Starks; Collector/Historian Midwest Military Communications Museum email: military-radio-guy@juno.com For the original text of this series of articles, ask for: MCGP Backmail #36: Desert Storm Trophies,& JCMEC Or view the web site at: http://www.armyradio.co.uk/ *********************************************** MEMBERS WRITE; Brown Nose, I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on the group. I think I've been in your group for about 2 years now, and it is strong as ever. We have had 4 overwelmingly successful group projects, and the quality of the articles contributed remains outstanding. When I first joined your group I had doubts about how long it would last, and yes there have been the odd few incidents but they are nothing compared to the never ending bickering and drivel on most of the reflectors, including the one you have to pay for. On the other reflectors there is very little technical content, with even less military radio content. I keep every MCGP post I get for reference. Looking forward to the future. (Yes, this is an attempt to gain your favour) Cheers Steve Hill VK4CZT ed) keep up the good work, nose is a shade of dark green so far. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mil Paint Color Codes, Restauration of military rigs from various countries give me sometimes problems when I want to find the right paint to coverup scratches or even worse. Is there anyone of the MCGP-members who has a RAL-color code chart for the paints used for military equipment in the various countries. I even will be happy to know the RAL-colour code for the paint used by the US Army. I don't mean the term "olive drab" but the true colour number(s). For instance, the Dutch Army uses RAL 6010. As I am good informed this is an international code and finding the right RAL-colour codes might be of some help to other members who preserve their equipment as good as can be. Menno, PE1LDZ e-mail : MennoPutman@hetnet.nl ed) I don't know if these numbers are international or not, I don't even know if they can be used as a reference to mix paint. But soon as I find my list of significant numbers of interest I'll post them here. I'm interested in more data on this subject, especially as I need several gallons of simi-gloss OD to paint the old Power Wagon the color it's suppose to be(It's fire engine red now). ----------------------------------------------------------------- 12vdc vice 6vdc on Inverters/PRC-25 Series, HI DENNIS. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE INVERTERS. I KNOW THAT THE ORIGINAL TEST DATA USED A 6 VOLT SUPPLY. DO YOU HAVE TO USE 6 VOLTS OR CAN YOU USE 12 VOLTS? I CAN FIND LOTS OF SURPLUS 12 VOLT BATTERIES FAIRLY CHEAP, BUT 6 VOLT BATTERIES ARE A LOT HARDER TO FIND. YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB. I HAVE REALLY ENJOYED THE PRC-25 SERIES. I AM GOING TO PUT IT ALL TOGETHER AND ATTACH A COPY TO BOTH OF MY PRC-25S. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK. TODD HUSS KA0ZDD@JUNO.COM ed) the inverters were specifically designed to operate from a 6vdc source(gell cell), except the BC-611 supply which operates from 5ea 'D' cells. But there is nothing stopping you from installing a regulator in front of it just as we do with our home brew units. An LM-317 regulator will then allow operation from 6-30vdc.There will be a draw back when using internal batteries of 12vdc, you will not be able to use as high an amp-hour rated battery which will result in a drastic reduction of operational time(except where a large area is available for batteries I/E the PRC-10, and BC-1000). The completed PRC-25 series can now be seen at Tom Norris' web site at: HTTP://www.telalink.net/~badger/millist/mi.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- Field Day Antenna? BTW, I had the RT-68 et al set up for field day on an overlook above the south end of Santa Clara Valley (aka silicon valley) but didn't hear anything, except for images of the Cal. Highway patrol repeaters. Packed up and went home after a few hours and even tried the side of the mountain overlooking Monteray Bay but still nothing.Maybe next year... What is the prefered antenna for a field event for 6 meters? At SLO meet D. Dillman had a ground plane with steeply sloping radials but I would think something with more directivity would be in order. 73 Jay KE6PPF jayc@hpcmrd42.sj.hp.com ed) well, if you wanted to keep things authentic, there's only one antenna that would have been suitable. The RC-292 ground plane(1/4 wave). It uses the same family of antenna sections as the AB-15 on mobile antennas, includes in own mast, and is adjustable from 20-54mc. It would be correct for equipment dating from late WW-II till the mid 80's. There were some wire element, fold up, log periodic's built that operated 30-80mc. But their a little cumbersome, and pricie for my taste. Always remember, when assembling the mast sections for an RC-292, or AB-15, use some lubrication on the antenna section's threads, and only screw them together hand tight. If you negate this warning, you'll have some permanently assembled "whips", as they will not come apart! ----------------------------------------------------------------- German "Panzer" Headphones, I have a pair of German "Panzer" headphones. This pair has all the outside markings but has no German Eagle stamped on the inside band as you normally find. Any idea why some of these would be stamped with the eagle and swaztika and some not? Also, if anyone has an original plug for this set, I'd sure like to trade for it. Finally-- The black rubber on one of the earmuffs has a crack and both of them are "stiff." I asked about this around three years ago, but thought I'd ask again just in case something "new" has come up- is there any way to restore plyablity to these black rubber pieces? 73 Dave Stinson AB5S arc5@ix.netcom.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- War Time 2 Meter Freqs Needed, Does anyone know what standard VHF frequencies were used during the war? I am trying to put crystals in my SCR-522 and only have pairs for 116.10 mc and 126.18 Mc. Obviously there were at least four channels in the most common VHF equipments. I know that one was a guard channel so it must have been a common frequency. I also can't imagine retuning the VHF radios for each mission like they could with the Command Sets so there must have been fairly commonly used frequencies. Lenox Carruth Dallas, TX carruth@geo-thermal.com Collector of WW-II Communications Equipment and Memorabilia *********************************************** NEW MEMBERS; Jan Bury, Sir, I would like to thank you very much for your letter. I accept the rules described in your e-mail and I would like to receive the Military Radio Collectors' Post by e-mail. I would like also to introduce myself. I am an amateur radio operator and here I started my interest in military communications. I am interested in history of modern conflicts and modern warfare, especially in the Middle East. I do collect some items from the former Warsaw Pact block - mostly radios produced and used in Poland and use them on HAM bands. It is very difficult (and costful) to import a heavy manpack radio (e.g. the flagship of all PRC's, the PRC-77) via post from the US to Europe, so I stopped my practice on collecting information. I was trying to compile the entire list of all PRC's made world-wide (not only in the USA, but in England, Germany, Israel and Italy as well), get some info on the Israeli radios and Gulf War equipment. I sent an additional letter on this to Mr. Howard. Since Poland joined NATO this year, I hope some surplus PRC's will be soon available here and this allows me to purchase them. I send you my best regards, Sincerely, - -- Jan Bury Warsaw, Poland e-mail: yahya@orient.uw.edu.pl ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Whittaker, Dennis, I hereby accept all the above conditions. Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Mark Whittaker and I live in Kensington which is a suburb of Perth, Australia. I am 36 years of age and work as a laboratory technician after a stint in the Australian army. I collect militaria with a particular emphasis on Australia's involvement in the Vietnam War. I have been doing this for the past 10 years as time and financial conditions dictate!( you know the story). I am an active member of local militaria societies, and attend all local fairs and shows. I am currently trying to enhance my collection by adding to it communication equipment used by Australian forces during that particular conflict (hence the need for a PRC-64). As this is a new area of collecting for me, I can only offer the group expertise in other areas of Australian Vietnam era militaria; and through my contacts would be pleased to assist any other collectors/members where I can. Hope that gives you a snapshot of me and my collecting interests. Should you require any further details please contact me via mail : Regards, Mark ed)I hope you'll be able to fill us in on the exploits of Australian troops in Vietnam. I've already written everything I know, and that wasn't much! *********************************************** OBIT; Anatoly Moskalenko With deep regret we inform you about passing of Anatoly Moskalenko, UA2AO on June 28 after long illness. Anatoly was DXCC Honor Roll ham and most prominent Russian WWII lendlease equipment collector. He saved several tons of fine lendlease equipment from devastation. He was educated on excellent US made equipment as a ham. He left his wish to display his collection permanently in SPb Military Ordnance and Signal troops museum (founded in 1702 by Imperor Peter I). ed) Since the break up of the Soviet Union, many museums have been reduced to basic Flea Markets. Tourist with enough money can basically walk in, and buy museum artifacts, providing the curators with sufficient funds to buy themselves some toilet paper. I hope the same dose not befall Mr. Moskalenko collection. *********************************************** HUMOR; Any big organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different limbs at different levels. Some monkeys are climbing up; some are going down. The monkeys on top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. The monkeys at the bottom look up and see nothing but ass-holes. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dead Horse Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, in business we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following: 1. Buying a stronger whip. 2. Changing riders. 3. Saying things like "This is the way we always have ridden this horse." 4. Appointing a committee to study the horse. 5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses. 6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses. 7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse. 8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability. 9. Comparing the state of dead horses in today's environment. 10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead." 11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse. 12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed. 13. Declaring that "No horse is to dead to beat." 14. Providing additional funding to increase the horses performance. 15. Do a CA Study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper. 16. Purchase a product to make the dead horse run faster. 17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead. 18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses. 19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses. 20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable. 21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position. ----------------------------------------------------------------- This guy is sitting in a bar, drunk, he asks the bartender "where's the bathroom at?" The bartender said, "go down the hall and make a right." Well, all of a sudden, everybody at the bar hears this loud scream and wonders what is going on in the bathroom. A few minutes go by again and everybody at the bar hears another loud scream that came out of the bathroom again.This time the bartender goes into the bathroom to investigate what the drunk is screaming about. He opens the door and asks the drunk, "What's all the screaming about in here? You are scaring all my customers away."The drunk said, "I'm sitting on the toilet and every time I go to flush it, something comes up and squeezes the hell out of my balls."With that, the bartender opens up the door and looks in and says, "No wonder, you're sitting on the mop bucket!!!" ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin, a 19 year old college student, is home for summer break. In order to make a few extra bucks he decides that he is going to apply for a part time job at the local K-Mart. Kevin fills out the standard application and is called into the manager's office. The manager is the typical K-Mart employee -- skinny, glasses, pocket protector and K-Mart clothes. Also, he takes a little too much pride in working at K-Mart. He says, "Kevin, do you think you have what it takes to work at the 'Big K'?" Kevin laughs to himself, thinking "what an asshole!" But since it was an interview he responded, "Absolutely." The Manager continued, "In order to work here you need to be a salesman and you need to be in touch with the customer. Do you think you've got those qualities?" Again, Kevin laughs to himself, "Is this fucking guy serious?" but he says again, "Absolutely." "Well let me show you how it's done,"says the manager. The manager leads Kevin to a counter and waits for a customer. The first guy to come along drops a 50 pound bag of grass seed on the counter. The manager says, "That's a pretty big bag of grass seed ya got there." "Yup," responds the customer. The manager winks at Kevin and says, "Ya think you might need a new lawn mower for that grass you're putting down?" Kevin actually sees the lightbulb go off over the customer's head. "Yeah! That's a great idea." The manager leads him back to the lawn mowers and helps him pick out a really nice model. "Ya see, Kev, that's how it's done. Ya think you can do that?" "Hell, yeah!" says Kevin, "Just watch." Kevin steps up to the counter and the next man to come along drops a huge package of tampons onto the counter. Kevin looks at the box and then at the embarrassed customer. "That's a pretty big box of tampons ya got there," says Kevin. The embarrassed man looks up feebly and says, "Yup." A moment of silence passes and then Kevin blurts out, "Would you be interested in buying a new lawnmower?" The customer looks up from his shoes and responds, "What the fuck would I want a lawnmower for?" Kevin winks at his manager and says, "Well, since you won't be getting laid this weekend I figured you might want to mow your fucking lawn!" ----------------------------------------------------------------- There was a kindergarten class that just came from a brief vacation. The teacher tells them to talk about their vacation in adult words. So one kid raises his hand. " Ok Kevin, what did you do over the vacation?" The teacher asked. Kevin says, "I rode on a horsie." The teacher says, "No, in adult words. You have to say 'I rode on a horse'. " Then Kevin says, "Ok, I rode on a horse." Then another kid raises her hand. "What did you do over the vacation Jennifer?" The teacher asked. "I rode on a choo-choo." Jennifer responded. "No, in adult words. You have to say 'I rode on a train'." The tacher said. "OK," Jennifer says. "I rode on a train." Then another kid raises his hand. "Ok David. What did you do over the vacation?" The teacher asked. "I read a book." David said. "Very good David!!!" The teacher said. "What book was it?" "Winne the SHIT!!!" ----------------------------------------------------------------- THE OLD DOUBLE STANDARD !! If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race, you're a male chauvinist. If you stay home and do the housework, you're a sissy. If you work too hard, there is never any time for her. If you don't work enough, you're a good-for-nothing bum. If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, this is exploitation. If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your butt and find something better. If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism. If she gets a job ahead of you, it's equal opportunity. If you mention how nice she looks, it's sexual harassment. If you keep quiet, it's male indifference. If you cry, you're a wimp. If you don't, you're an insensitive jerk. If you thump her, it's wife bashing. If she thumps you, it's self defense. If you make a decision without consulting her, you're a chauvinist. If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman. If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy, that's domination. If she asks you, it's a favor. If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, you're a pervert. If you don't, you're a fag. If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, you're sexist. If you don't, you're unromantic. If you try to keep yourself in shape, you're vain. If you don't, you're a slob. If you buy her flowers, you're after something. If you don't,you're not thoughtful. If you're proud of your achievements, you're up on yourself. If you don't, you're not ambitious. If she has a headache, she's tired. If you have a headache, you don't love her anymore. If you want it too often, you're oversexed. If you don't, there must be someone else. *********************************************** The preceding was a product of the"Military Collector Group Post", an international email magazine dedicated to the preservation of history and the equipment that made it. Unlimited circulation of this material is authorized so long as the proper credits to the original authors, and publisher or this group are included. For more information concerning this group or membership contact Dennis Starks at, . A list of selected articles of interest to members can be seen at: http://www.softcom.net/users/buzz/backmail.html ***********************************************