From: military-radio-guy Full-Name: Dennis R Starks To: military radio collectors#1 Fcc: Sent Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:10:02 Subject: MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, Sept.1/99 Message-ID: <19990901.060907.7935.4.military-radio-guy@juno.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, Sept.1/99 Index: FOURTEEN HUNDRED MILES TO MECCA & BACK; Part I, by Ralph Hogan WB4TUR MEMBERS WRITE; Army Versus Navy, R-390! GRC-109 Gas Generator, ARC-60 Info Needed, PRC-52 is CIA Miniature Radio Station, Unit Markings? NEW MEMBER; John Watkins WD5ENU HUMOR; *********************************************** FOURTEEN HUNDRED MILES TO MECCA & BACK; Part I, by Ralph Hogan WB4TUR As I started my long journey I remembered words from the Islamic Koran: "Turn, therefore, thy face towards the Holy Temple of Mecca; and wherever ye be, turn your faces towards that place." I am not of Islamic persuasion, but felt I was headed toward a sacred place. A place for Military radio collectors. The "Midwest Military Communications Museum" in Cross Timbers, Missouri. Home of one 'Dennis Starks'. The plan for a visit had actually begun much earlier in the year. Dennis had accumulated some land mobile equipment I just couldn't live without (repeater junkie toys). Because of its size and weight, I easily talked myself into going to pick it up and have a face to face visit rather than pay a shipper. Well, that's the excuse anyway. I wanted to meet this walking military radio legend and see his Museum collection. As I ran my tripmaker software planning the trip out starting in Huntsville, Alabama the mileage counter just ticked away. We started off trying to plan on a circuitous path seeing every single person in the United States we knew (or so it seemed). Reason and lack of time finally won out. A single forward observation base FOB was declared in St. Louis, MO. Hey, its in the same state as Dennis, it should be close enough.. right? The weekend of August 14th was finally selected for the visit. Ample warnings of our impending invasion were given to all those concerned. Having taken the sound advice of other followers before me, I decided against taking my own vehicles (woeful in hauling capacity) and rented the biggest minivan I could find. The day finally arrived to leave. Friday the 13th. What a lucky day for us. The minivan was picked up, loaded up with swap materials, military radio show and tell items (more on those later). Although this was only a weekend trip, the wife and son had packed enough for a months stay over. We were on our way! Leaving Huntsville, AKA Rocket city, home of NASA, Redstone Arsenal and Space Camp only 2 1/2 hours later than we had planned. The trip took us out of Alabama, into Tennessee. The stretch of land on I-65 from the Tennessee state line into Nashville is always a visually pleasant one if you haven't traveled it before. We arrived at the southern gates of Nashville, home of the Grand OLE Opry just in time for stand still rush hour traffic. Great Tactical timing. Finally clearing the bog down, we were once again were cruising. But once we got onto I-24 heading North West from Nashville, we hit yet another bogged down slow moving traffic pattern. Were we every going to get out of Nashville? We traveled on through Kentucky and Illinois, arriving late into St. Louis Friday evening. Total trip time, about 7+ hours. Unfortunately, we stayed up very late (2 AM) catching up on all the current news of our old friends. I awoke a very tired camper. It was very hard to drag myself back into the Van early Saturday morning. But I did it! At 8:30 am I left behind my family to visit with our friends while I made the last leg of the journey solo. I've learned long ago that wives and radios don't mix for very long periods of time. I knew this visit was going to be a long one. As I started the last leg of my journey to meet Dennis, I reflected the history between us. We had been dealing with each other for over four years now, but had never met in person. After one phone deal for land mobile stuff long ago, he asked me if I was into Military Radios. I responded, 'why yes I am. Used one for my first Novice rig back in the early 70's. Have had them around ever since.' Now, at that time, most folks were not on internet, including myself and Dennis. Soon after our conversation about all things green, 3.5 inch floppies started mysteriously arriving periodically in the mail. These were his first early drafts of 'MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST'. (How many folks were there in this early group Dennis?) . At the time, I was sure glad to see that I was not the only person in the world infected with this form of collecting. Over the years these post have served to unite collectors for education and fellowship. Well I digress... Dennis had suggested a particular route to his location. My computer another. I liked his better. St. Louis is located right on its central eastern border. My route took me due West for a spell and then due south, through Jefferson City, the State capital, and further down deep into southern Missouri (pronounced with an 'ah' or 'uh' sound at the end, not an 'e' sound ....You have to be from the 'show me state' to know that...). Very near my last turn, I noted I was only 55 miles from my own birth place. Yes, a mid-western boy myself, but I hadn't been back there in a long long time. As I made the final turn, a sign proudly announced 'Cross Timbers six miles ahead'. Now I had popped a 6 meter mag mount whip on the van. I was armed with a prc-25. I had been calling blue in the face to no avail on 51.6 MHz for many miles. Still no answer from Dennis. I was beginning to wonder if the radio still worked. He was expecting me to call. As the odometer ticked off the miles, another sign appeared stating I was actually in Cross Timbers, MO 'Population 210' at 12:30 PM. I had estimate three hours, but ended up doing it in four. I should have started to slow down a tad. I whizzed past an odd assortment of vehicles and buildings on my left. I was past it before I saw antennas sprouting everywhere and one BIG red dodge ambulance. I knew I had reached my destination: The "Midwest Military Communications Museum". Dennis was ready and waiting. He was out of his house before I could get out of the van. I was late. He told me so. Initial greetings were performed. Now, it seems there is a custom to which you must abide by. I had heard tell of something called a 'tribute' to be paid. Now what do you bring to the guy who has everything already? I happened to remember a distant past conversation of something he wanted to get someday. Seems his hamfest hat declaring he was the "military radio guy" was wearing thin. He thought about getting a T-shirt instead. He was most surprised by the custom embroidered OD T-shirts I brought along. It was much later in the day when he finally remembered our conversation and how I knew that's exactly what he had been wanting. As a gracious host, he offered me some tea. I gladly accepted, being parched from the trip. It was beautiful weather that day, but a typical hot August afternoon. Dennis brought out two huge mugs of sweat ice tea. These stayed close at hand the rest of the day and sure hit the spot! I hadn't arrived more that 10 minutes when we were off down the road in big Red, Denise's Dodge Ambulance. We were off to find me some food. We had all read of his trials and tribulations with this vehicular beast to the many shows he attends. I actually had hoped to get a close look at this vehicle I had heard so much about. My dream came true... Over the deafening roar of the engine, Dennis explained he wasn't happy with the new mufflers (or lack thereof) a local muffler shop had installed. I wouldn't have been happy with them either. It was a only a couple of dB less than no mufflers at all. Not a covert vehicle to be sure. I'm sure Dennis will keep us informed on this topic. We traveled the six miles back down the road, from whence I had come to a little local diner. We entered the diner (still with mugs of tea in hand). Now I've been around enough small towns to know that everybody knows everybody and what every one is up to. This was the case. Everyone knew my host. They served up a great 'deluxe' huge hamburger for me and two ample slices of chocolate pie for Dennis. A highly recommend stop over for chow. Then it was back down the highway to Dennisville. Stay tuned for part II. Ralph Hogan WB4TUR Huntsville, AL. rhogan@traveller.com ed) I'll not say a damn thing till this is over with! *********************************************** MEMBERS WRITE; Army Versus Navy, R-390! Come on now, I know its out of context , but the bloated out of date procurement system for ground radio gave us the R-390 possibility the best vacuum tube receiver ever built. lets see, what did the Navy do, they went from dogs like the RBB / RBC to all assortments of FRR stuff, all very heavy with lots of knobs and meters ( their can not be so much to monitor on a RBB that it takes three meters ). But wait! someone thought " lets use the R-390 " a Army radio ( am not sure, but think the 390 was developed in the fifties for the angry twenty six ) for shipboard use. so their we go, a ground radio afloat. Well we cant have this, so the Navy had to develop radios like the SRR -13 a real example of a high tech receiver before the technology was up to the job. The 390 still stayed afloat, and with the R-1051 and newer radios the 390 was taken out of service, but I will bet their is still a couple R-390s out their working in some shore installation today. not bad for a ground radio. Ray Fantini ed) though I can't prove it at this time because I don't have time to do the resurch, I think you'll find several noteworthy points about the Navy, the R-390, and Collins in general. #1, The Navy may not have been first to use R-390's, but there is a good chance they were.. Contrary to what people might believe, the R-390 was not designed as a companion to the T-368(a Barker & Williamson design?). It was mated with that transmitter as happenstance just as several other receivers were. #2, They used more R-390's than both the Army & Airforce combined. #3, They used the R-390 longer than either the Army, or Airforce. Replacement of R-390's in Naval service began in the mid 1970's with the the R-1051. Even then, each installation retained one or two R-390's for use on CW nets into the early 1980's. The Army on the other hand began replacing R-390's on a limited scale with the introduction of the GRC-106 in 1960. It lingered in use along side the T-368 TTY systems until the late 1960's(as did the R-388). #4, Collins traditionally has not been involved in the development of communications systems for the military. They have always been WAY ahead of the military in forecasting uses for new technology. As a result, when the military once recognized a need, Collins often already had the system to fill it. This indeed is the case with the TCS, ART-13, 618 family, KWS-1(yes, the KWS-1, the Navy used them!), ARR-15, ARR-41, KWM-2(FRC-93), PRC-41, PRC-47, PRC-75, and many others. All of which had been developed before the military decided they needed such an item, and in most cases were adopted as-is, off-the-shelf without modification. In most, but not all cases, the Navy would be first to use them, and in every case they would be by far the largest purchaser. Your comparison of the R-390 with the RBB/RBC family receivers is a very unfair one. These are WW-II vintage RCA sets, the first having been in service by 1940 at the latest(the R-390 began to make it's impact around 1955). I might point out that the Army at the same time had a couple SP-200 series types, very few SX-28's, and maybe a gaggle of various generations of HRO's. I could go through and list some of the receivers in large scale use by both branches in the 50's, but not yet. One thing is for sure, the Navy had such as selection of receivers dating from the mid 1930's-late 60's alone, that the list would fill several large volumes! One last note, the FRR designation is usualy affixed to an extremely complicated system with a specialized application, yet was suposedly still field transportable(but some very small vehicular types also got stock in too). To name just a few of the receivers used in many of these systems: the SP-200(FRR-4, -12), SP-600 series(FRR-28), SX-73's(FRR-12X), R-388's, R-389's, R-391(FRR-33). And the winner by a long shot, yes, the R-390(FRR-34, -38, -39, -40)! ---------------- Hi Dennis, In the article Army Versus Navy, will you be diuscussing the orignins of the AN/xxx-yyy nomenclature system in any future installments? That's quite interesting article so far. Regards, Jerry Proc VE3FAB jproc@idirect.com Web: www3.sympatico.ca/hrc/haida HMCS HAIDA Historic Naval Ship, Toronto Ontario ed) The subject of AN type numbers is a very strange one that I can't really understand, nor know enough about. As the story is told, congress mandated in mid WW-II that a joint Army/Navy universal numbering system be adopted to relieve some of the confusion in equipment types. It would appear though that this mandate was earlier than mid-war as AN numbers were in existence by 1942(PRC-1/Army, ARC-5/Navy), and by 1945 such types as the PRC-6/Army/Navy, ARC-2/Navy, ARC-3/Army/Navy. But neither the Army nor Navy used AN numbering with any regularity, even on their newly adopted equipment(even after the congressional mandate). It would further seem that there was only a half assed attempt to comply by either military branch in the postwar years, especially by the Navy who persisted in using WW-II type numbers on some models of equipment, especially portable types, into the late 50's(MAY, MAW, MBM etc), or simply adopt equipment using the manufacture's original model number(like 51J3 as apposed to R-388, or 618S as apposed to ARC-38). This even though they had adopted dozens of ground types not in Army inventory and used AN numbers on the them, some so rare as to have very few surviving examples, or none!(GRC-13, PRC-7, & PRC-88 for examples). On the other hand, the Army began large scale re-numbering of all it's WW-II vintage radio sets by the end of the war(though very few of these new designations actually stuck). The same is true of the Navy, but to a lesser extent. Hell if I know why there was all this hit-and-miss, especially on the Navy's part for so long. ----------------------------------------------------------------- GRC-109 Gas Generator, From: Patricia Gibbons I have an AN/GRC109 with both the AC-only power supply, and the one that also has the built-in 6-volt DC vibrator supply.. I've seen in a couple of books a photo of a complete set-up of the AN/GRC109 that was set up as part of a display with Army Special Forces.. In one of the photos, there appears to be a really small and boxey gasoline generator that looked like it was to power the GRC109 in the field .. Anyone have info on the generator ?? Trish ed) Though there have been others rumored, the only official gas powered generator for use with the GRC-109 was the same one used with the BC-1306, TRC-2, and GRC-9(early versions also would operate the SCR-284). This was the PE-162. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ARC-60 Info Needed, ARC-60 - UHF comm. set, consists of CV431 Transverter, R508 VHF Rcvr., CT1917 Contl Box, 0423 Osc. relay, AT701 Ant. UHF. This is an addition to our Yankee Air Force Museum in Oscoda Mi. Would like Tech manuals - or at least pin-out and crystal type used in this UHF Transverter. Bob Sanderson ----------------------------------------------------------------- PRC-52 is CIA Miniature Radio Station, Dennis, I enjoyed your article (Rebuttal) on the military portable radio sets. You mentioned you wanted to know more about the PRC-52. In the book, CIA Special Weapons & Equipment by H. Keith Melton (ISBN 0-8069-8733-2), it is referred to as the Miniature Radio Station. By the way, you should get the book, it is excellent for reference. I have been collecting "Spy Radios" since the early 1980's when I obtained a dozen unused RS-6 sets with all accessories when I was living in San Antonio. I advertised them in QST, and received calls on them for 5 years. Last summer, I obtained a PRC-52 for the 16 to 32 MHZ band. This frequency version was not listed in the above mentioned book. With the radio, I got the manual on the unit, plus an addendum for the 16 - 32 MHZ version. Should you be intersted in a copy I will be glad to copy it for you. My "Spy Radio" collection is growing, but this manual and the one for my RS-6 are the only manuals I have for the equipment. My manual for the RS-1 is a Fair Radio Copy of the GRC-109, I have nothing on my PRC-64 or either version of my Delco 5300's. Do you know of any sources for originals of these manuals, even an excellent copy would be nice to have. Thanks and 73, Bob K5GNA ed) Thanks for the input. Until I heard your comments, the below is all we knew of the PRC-52. PRC-52; Portable HF/CW transmitter-receiver. Ops 3-16mc Rx, 3-32 MHz Tx CW Tx only, crystal controlled, 5W with Amp AM-2855, 15 W with AM-2856, runs from 6-72 VDC or 110 VDC, 2 penlight cells(3vdc) for Rx. Built by Delco and Victory. Ref.late 60's edition of "Electronics", a McGraw-Hill publication. No further information. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unit Markings? I have a radio comming marked with the following, 9th POB (A) B Co. SOF Can anybody tell me what unit this is? Dennis *********************************************** NEW MEMBER; Hi Dennis, I would like to be included in your military collectors group. I have read the email on the conditions outlined and fully support them. I am not a dealer, just a green radio collector. I am especially interested in anything on the PRC-25, as I have had one since 1972 (A Marine reject from Camp Pendelton). I picked up a Midland Model 70-155B handheld radio at the US Embassy auction in Muscat, Oman along with some other stuff. It appears that it is programmable. Do you know anything about this radio, or where I could find some info on it. PRC-25, RT-70 w/AM65, GRC-106, a spare RT-662 (RT-834 and RT-662 in repair) R-390A (being restored), R-442, PRC-6, PRT-4s and PRR-9s, PRC-90 (in use when I go to bad places), URT-4s, URT-10, RBZ (neat little radio). Also some military test equiptment. I also have some commercial comm stuff that I picked up at an auction by the US Embassy in Muscat, Oman. Thanks John Watkins WD5ENU ed) I have no idea why the Midland was in use at the U.S. Embassy, I do beleive that it is programmable, and VHF. I picked up a couple of them at a State Auction just yesterday(they had been in use by the Dept of Natural Resources), and have one setting on a charger now. *********************************************** HUMOR; The owner of a horse stud farm gets a call from a friend. "I'm sending over a fella who wants to buy a horse. You'll know him when you see him because he's a midget with a speech impediment. The midget arrives, and the owner asks if he wants a male or female horse. "A female horth," the midget replies. So the owner shows him one. "Nith looking horth, can I see her mouth?" So the owner picks up the midget and shows him the horse's mouth. "Nith mouth. Can I see her eyesth?" So the owner picks up the midget and shows the eyes. "Very bright eyesth, what about her earsth?" Now the owner is getting annoyed, but he again picks up the midget and shows the ears. "OK, I guess now I'd like to see her twat." With that, the owner picks up the midget and shoves his head firmly up into the horse's nether regions, then pulls him out. Shaking his head, the midget says, "Perhapth I should rephrase that - I'd like to see her run!" ----------------------------------------------------------------- You might be a Redneck Jedi if..... * You ever said the phrase, "May the force be with y'all." * Your Jedi robe is camouflage. * You have ever used your light saber to open a bottle of Bud Light. * At least one wing of your X-Wings is primer colored. * You can easily describe the taste of an Ewok. * You have ever had a land-speeder up on blocks in your yard. * The worst part of spending time on Dagobah is the dadgum skeeters. * Wookiees are offended by your B.O. * You have ever used the force to get yourself another beer so you didn't have to wait for a commercial. * You have ever used the force in conjunction with fishing or bowling. * Your father has ever said to you, "Shoot, son come on over to the dark side...it'll be a hoot." * You have ever had your R-2 unit use its self-defense electro-shock thingy to get the barbecue grill to light up. * You have a confederate flag painted on the hood of your land-speeder. * You ever fantasized about Princess Leia wearing Daisy Duke shorts. * You have the doors of your X-wing welded shut and you have to get in through the window. * Although you had to kill him, you kinda thought that Jabba the Hutt had a pretty good handle on how to treat his women. * You have a cousin who bears a strong resemblance to Chewbacca. * You suggested that they outfit the Millennium Falcon with redwood deck. * You were the only person drinking Jack Daniels during the cantina scene. * If you hear . . . "Luke, I am your father... and your uncle..." ----------------------------------------------------------------- Martha Stewart's tips for Rednecks 1. When decanting wine, make sure that you tilt the paper cup, and pour slowly so as not to "bruise" the fruit of the vine. 2. If drinking directly from the bottle, always hold it with your fingers covering the label. ENTERTAINING IN YOUR HOME 1. A centerpiece for the table should never be anything prepared by a taxidermist. 2. Do not allow the dog to eat at the table ... no matter how good his manners are. PERSONAL HYGIENE 1. While ears need to be cleaned regularly, this is a job that should be done in private using one's OWN truck keys. 2. Proper use of toiletries can forestall bathing for several days. However, if you live alone, deodorant is a waste of good money. DATING (Outside the Family) 1. Always offer to bait your date's hook, especially on the first date. 2. Be aggressive. Let her know you're interested: "I've been wanting to go out with you since I read that stuff on the bathroom wall two years ago." 3. Establish with her parents what time she is expected back. Some will say 10:00 PM. Others might say "Monday." If the latter is the answer, it is the man's responsibility to get her to school on time. THEATER ETIQUETTE 1. Crying babies should be taken to the lobby and picked up immediately after the movie has ended. 2. Refrain from talking to characters on the screen. Tests have proven they can't hear you. WEDDINGS 1. Livestock, usually, is a poor choice for a wedding gift. 2. Kissing the bride for more than 5 seconds may get you shot. 3. For the groom, at least, rent a tux. A leisure suit with a cummerbund and a clean bowling shirt can create a tacky appearance. 4. Though uncomfortable, say "yes" to socks and shoes for this special occasion. DRIVING ETIQUETTE 1. Dim your headlights for approaching vehicles; even if the gun is loaded, and the deer is in sight. 2. When approaching a four-way stop, the vehicle with the largest tires always has the right of way. 3. Never tow another car using panty hose and duct tape. 4. When sending your wife down the road with a gas can, it is impolite to ask her to bring back beer. 5. Never relieve yourself from a moving vehicle, especially when driving. 6. Do not lay rubber while traveling in a funeral procession. TIPS FOR ALL OCCASIONS 1. Never take a beer to a job interview. 2. It's considered tacky to take a cooler to church. 3. If you have to vacuum the bed, it is time to change the sheets. 4. Even if you're certain that you are included in the will, it is still considered tacky to drive a U-Haul to the funeral home. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Things you'll never hear a Redneck say: We don't keep firearms in this house. Has anybody seen the sideburn trimmer? You can't feed that to the dog. I thought Graceland was tacky. No kids in the back of the pick-up, it's not safe. Wrasslin's fake. Honey, did you mail that donation to Greenpeace? We're vegetarians. Sweetie, Do you think my hair is too big? I'll have grapefruit instead of biscuits and gravy. Honey, these bonsai trees need watering? Who's Richard Petty? Give me the small bag of pork rinds. Deer heads detract from the decor. Spitting is such a nasty habit. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today. Trim the fat off that steak. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso. The tires on that truck are too big. I'll have the arugula and radicchio salad. I've got it all on a floppy disk. Unsweetened tea tastes better. I prefer Florshiem shoes over Johnson & Murphy. Would you like your fish poached or broiled? My fiancee, Paula Jo, is registered at Tiffany's. I've never been to a NASCAR race. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl. Little Debbie snack cakes have too many fat grams. Checkmate. I'm too old to be wearing a bikini. Does the salad bar have bean sprouts? Hey, here's an episode of "Hee Haw" that we haven't seen. I don't have a favorite college team. I believe you cooked those green beans too long. My Dentist said. Elvis who Be sure to bring my salad dressing on the side Yankees sure are a smart folk. ----------------------------------------------------------------- This man was in a long line at the grocery store. As he got to the register he realized he had forgotten to get condoms. So he asked the checkout girl if she could have some condoms brought up to register. She asked, What size condoms?" The customer replied that he didn't know. She asked him to drop his pants. He did, she reached over the counter, grabbed hold of him, then picked up the store intercom and said "One box of large condoms to register 5." The next man in line thought this was interesting and, like most of us, up for a cheap thrill. When he got to the register, he told the checker that he too had forgotten to get condoms, and asked if she could have some brought up to the register. She asked him what size, and he stated that he didn't know. She asked him to drop his pants. He did, she gave him a quick feel, picked up the store intercom and said, "One box of medium sized condoms to register 5." A few customers back was this teen-aged boy. He thought what he had witnessed was way too cool. He had never had any type of sexual contact with a live female, so he thought this was his chance. When he got up to the register, he told the checker he needed some condoms. She asked him what size, and he said he didn't know. She asked him to drop his pants and he did. She reached over the counter, gave him one quick squeeze, then picked up the intercom and said, "Clean up at register 5!" *********************************************** The preceding was a product of the"Military Collector Group Post", an international email magazine dedicated to the preservation of history and the equipment that made it. Unlimited circulation of this material is authorized so long as the proper credits to the original authors, and publisher or this group are included. For more information concerning this group or membership contact Dennis Starks at, . A list of selected articles of interest to members can be seen at: http://www.softcom.net/users/buzz/backmail.html ***********************************************