Military Collector Group Post, Nov.9/97 Index: New Comers Questions/Sugjestions; Discussion, TCS, PRC-17,BC-222,BC-611,PRC-1/TRC-10,Jap, & other good Stuff AES Foxhole Radio; What Crap! WHATSIT; Mark 30 MOD 0 ? WHATSIT; TRIPOD M-230B ? Got Too Many RS-6s; Wonna Trade? HUMOR; realy sick this time! ************************************************************ New Comers Questions/Sugjestions; Discussion, TCS, PRC-17, & Jap Stuff Note, the below is a discussion between me & Hue Miller. He has been asleep for a couple months & didn't know we were here. So just now is coming up to date. Make no mistake, Hue is no dummy(like Ralph & Danny), these questions are posted in attempts to further investigate the history and reasoning behind our treasures, & generate further discussion. Hue in fact is one of the most respected & knowledgeable collectors this country has to offer(don't tell him I said that, I'll deni it!), he might even be as smart as me(I didn't say that either!). One thing is for sure, he's been at it much longer than I have(age before beauty, that can be repeated!). Dennis is someone really saying the PRC-17 survival radio is rare?? not on the west coast. btw i surely would like to find the manual for this. i daydream abt tweaking one of these up to 2 meters or somethin, altho i'll likely postpone this forever. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------- At the time I commented on the PRC-17, that one was the only one that I'd ever heard of, or new to be in anyones hands, sense then a second has appeared. I don't have one myself. Now 3, thats not real common for 20 years of lookin. BTW I don't like hearing that something is common, when I don't have & can't find one for myself!. now re TCS, has anyone encountered the aluminum or stainless steel cabinet? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------- Never thought much about stainless or aluminum TCS cabinets, are they still Black crinkle painted? I have had a couple the paint couldn't stick to, could have been either. Also, are we aware that some models, tcs-5 for certain, per manual, were intended for land vehicle use and so had wider bandwidth? also why did FAIR's last TCS-12 xmtr ads say this model "extra desirable for CW" ?? there's no difference that i can detect. now that the broadcast band has expanded to 1700 kc/s i surely wish i had kept at least one of the many TCS i have owned. i saw the last new TCS distributed by Navy MARS at NAS Sandpoint Seattle at the end of 1976, when HF am usage was ended by law. i think there were 5 ( more or less ) new crated units given away. i hope some were kept together but that's probably in vain, i believe the oldfart hams liked the transmitter for tty use and ditched the rest. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ You mean to tell me you don't have one TCS!! I'm ashamed of you! I got too many, maybe someday gotta fix that for you.What advantage would there be to a wider bandwidth for land vehical use? Fair Radio's Propagand "extra good for CW" probably was just some promo hype, like "good marine radio" they put on the BC-223, or the way they also refered to the MAB, as a marine radio("marine" as in, "for boats"). The TCS did have a rep for great CW tone. i've long thot that the Army & USAAF could well have used the tcs for their purposes also, instead of for example the bc-223 + bc-312, and maybe even the bc-375 + bc-312. if a lightweight cabinet had been provided, the set could well have been used as an aircraft liaison set in place of the scr-287. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------- The TCS was used in aircraft, as is evidenced by the aircraft amp/interphone box built by Magnevox in 44, though it's never been writen what aircraft. The BC-223 being primarily designed for light armor & scout cars, was dead meat by 1943 being completely succumbed by all the VHF FM stuff. Granted,there is no comparison between it & the TCS. The BC-375 was only built after 1942 for one reason, it's a to long a story to paste here. perhaps the Army kept the TCS in its books for the army Corps of Engineers, which ran its own tugboats in rivers and coastal areas. i toured an Army tug at NAS Sand Point in 1961, it had a Northern Radio Co. 100-watt radio. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- This is very possible, & one I'd never considered. Several times is WW-II Pacific & Vietnam history we find the Navy turning over vessals to the Army for whatever reason. These included Tugs, Riverine Patrol craft, PT boats, Landing craft etc, could it be that these vessals, being already outfitted with Naval commo equip, the Army would then need to open up logistic lines for their support, thus the reason for the TCS being listed in SIG 3,1953? Sounds like as good an explanation as any. The "Signal Corps" mensions that the Navy/Marine corps clammered after their superior BC-191. The only reason that I could think of would be the added power output. This would place the BC-191 between the TCS & TBW.Of course this series of books has a obvoius bias toward Signal Corp equipment. & we all know how "superior" the BC-191 was! It couldn't hold a candle to either the TCS or TBW. Maybe someday I'll write a tit for tat summery of Navy versus Signal Corps stuff. Guess who's gonna win! you know, the silly reason i think made me give up all my tcs is that the dial does not light up. and i dig lighted dials. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Thats SICK! have you already mentioned the Hallicrafter TR-35 as a higher-powered HF AM "village radio" ?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------- No I've never intentionally written any articles about the OPS series equipment, except to answer some questions, & refer people to a letter I wrote to Keith Melton a couple years ago which is rather complete(it's located in the Backmail Files). Numerous radios have been showing up of possible OPS origin. If you've not read this letter to Melton you should, Hallicrafters was only one of several companies that built OPS radios, & those others are not documented at all. The entire subject is a very interesting & mysterious one that well needs more research, I'd like to speak with Paul Kats(the horses mouth) but time has not permit me tracking him down, I once had him located within 20 miles circle of Washington DC, Rumor has it, that he's back to work for the State department. Personally I don't like the term "Village Radio" because it narrows the field to much, the OPS(Office of Public Safety) was involved with many countries. & every aspect of the history of any item of equipment deserves recognition. Also "Village Radio" has become one of those terms like "Spy Radio" that the jack ass's like to tack on the end of everthing so as to screw you outa an extra buck. I much prefer "OPS series". the circuit used in Tojo's 94-6 shows up in many USA ham "vhf" publications of the mid-1930s, among the "5 meter transceiver" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- Most definitely true, but the Japs were not the only offenders. The US BC-222 came directly from the 1935 ARRL handbook, it continued in US use for most of WW-II in the China/Burma theater do to extreme supply problems, even by wars end the legacy lived on for this piesa shit, in that their batteries were being dissected to power the BC-1000's that finally made it there. After the war China cloned the things into the late 50's. R you sure that BC-222/322 was ever used in CBI ? what documentation? i would bet a Monopoly dollar this is not correct. btw, look at the back cover of the Time-Life book on the Italian campaign & you will see what appears to be, from the distinctive bag, the scr-194/195 ( bc-222/322 ) in use. strange indeed. i am sure that it wasn't used for very long. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- BC-222/322 was most definitely present in the CBI(China Burma India), read "The Signal Corps". It was also present when we got run out of the Philippines. It can also be confirmed in these theaters by other very simple observations(here's a real simple one of many, if it wasn't there, how'd the Chinese clone it?) . Another sleeper is the BC-474(& I aint got a good one), read the backmail article on it. Per the picture in Time Life, I can speculate several reasons for it's being there., #1 the photo really doesn't apply to the Italian campaign, & was one out of their archives, #2 the photo was supplied by the Signal Corps, in which case, it too might not reflect the Italian campaign(most all photos that contained radio equipment during the war were supplied by the Signal Corps),#1,& #2 were very common occurrences. #3,& a more remote possibility is that when U.S. Forces entered the mountains of northern Italy, their equipment was ill suited for transport & operation in this terrain. An urgent battlefield, blanket request went back to signal depos in the U.S. to search out & immediately ship all of the available old cavalry sets. Could it be that some of the BC-222/322's where thrown in with this mess? Where it me, & were #3 is true, I'd pitch the radio & use it's rather neat carry bag! The deficiencies in the available equipment is also evidenced by later manuals,& "supplements", that would include provisions for mule transport, that did not exist in earlier publications(maybe a lesson was learned). i have heard from 2 sources that the Jap 94-6 was found in crashed fighter plane. sounds like truly a bs story, but could it have been carried for troop liaison? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- I think one of these came from me about eight years ago when I referred some guy in CA to you that had one & said it came from a plane. It is entirely possible & most probable that they did try to use it for FAC duties. We did the same thing with BC-620/659,BC-1000, RT-70's, PRC-9,10's, & PRC-25's, It was even done with the BC-222. Early experiments to prove the feasibility of FM involved the comparison of the BC-222 in spotter aircraft with the then experimental BC-620, not a real fair comparison. Perhaps Bill H. can shed some light. btw, the Nip "bc-611" style copy, is also only a 1-tube circuit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------- This is not the postwar clone,tis a wartime attempt, I've never seen a wartime one. the one-tube 611-lookalike Nip set is WW2 production. probably they realized how unwieldy their talkies were in comparison to the US BC-611. I have one but poor shape, ant and mic / headset parts gone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------- Shit! This might be one that even Bill don't know about!!! Per the BC-611, if it was the second, so what was the first handie-talkie? also, for the questions file, where did the term walkie-talkie come from? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- The first "walkie talkie" was the BC-222/322, the term was applied by the Signal Corps, originally in pre-war propaganda , then in the equipments manuals. The term "Handie talkie" is a Motorola registered trademark, deserving or not. btw i read in a german museum publication on their Kl-Fu-d ( sorry, brainfade, nomenclature not quite right ), their Dorette set, that they reported examining the BC-611 but decided it was too difficult to repair and they were not interested in producing such a "disposable set". but to me their conclusions sound rather like a case of the sour grapes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- The German comments per the BC-611 article are quotes from "The Signal Corps", & their info was abtain via captured documents,& was mostly likely the observations of field commanders. Those in the museum artical may be the result of an in-depth study by learned folks back home. Personaly, I would tend to agree with your materials version. Sour grapes are also possible. i met a fellow in Seattle who owns a BC-611 he found as a lad after the battle of Arnehm. it was tossed in a ditch after the antenna broke off. ( he replaced it postwar ). it has a camo pattern of a broad brown paint stripe about 3" wide winding around the set, about 3 turns total. he told me he also found a bazooka, which he enjoyed firing. what a swell toy! ( re finding toys, one of the aviation mags had an account of a brit lad, who salvaged a machine gun from a wrecked german plane, and then used it to fire at german planes when they came over low! he was about 12 years old! true story! ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- Put me down for one each of the above, got no ME's to shoot at, but lotsa Worthogs buzzin by antennas. "O", I want a the striped BC-611 too. the prc-1 kinda looks like the trc-10 does it?? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Nope, PRC-1 is one of the classic suitecase radios. First built for the OSS, it was judged to heavy & unsuited, it actualy predates the SSTR-1. Though the TRC-10 might be considered a re-packaged PRC-1, set up for operation much like a BC-474 or 654. In fact the TRC-10 uses some common accessories with the BC-654. See below extract from my book. PRC-1/RT-30;Suite case portable,HF,CW transmitter receiver.Built into a common suitcase,the PRC-1 was originally intended for use by the OSS in WW-II.It was however rejected as too heavy,& was only used by them till the SSTR-1 became available.Later was given it's PRC designation & adopted for use by special agents of Military Intelligence. As such the PRC-1 is known to have seen service in the WW-II China/Burma theater with Galahad forces.Here the operating personnel complained of the enormous strain in cranking it's hand crank generator do to the high output power of the transmitter.To compound this problem,it was also necessary to crank this generator even for receive operation,as no provision had been included for it's use with batteries. Ops 2-12mc in two continuously tunable bands,AM or CW(rec).2-12mc in two bands with Xtal control,CW only(trans).RF power output is 30 watts.Size 18 x 13.25 x 17.25" 32lbs,OD color. Though any description of the PRC-1 remained classified until 1958, evidence exist that place these radios in use at least until the early 60's.Sets will have no identifying marks. Ref.#3,#19C,#23 Hue Miller; ho4bart@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------- Dennis Starks; military-radio-guy@juno.com ************************************************************ AES Foxhole Radio; What Crap! Dennis, Are you familiar with the Foxhole radio kits sold by AES? Made from a coil of wire, paper clips, safety pins and a razor blade and a pencil lead? It is a pretty good version of a crystal set but have you ever heard of such a set being made or used by any G.I.? Fred ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Hell no! It would have had to a been one dumb, board grunt. Even the clandestine "canteen" receiver built by an Army officer during WW-II while in a Japanese POW camp had a tube in it. As implied, it was built into a canteen. And if an OFFICER could do it, anybody could! I didn't see any kind of a capacitor in that parts list! Is this about the only kinda crap we can get anymore that says "Made in America"? Probably not even that, bet the pencil & razor blade are of Oreintal origin! Just as bad is the class of Ham that might purchase this garbage. My first "Spy Radio" was a xtal set I built into a gutted ball point pin, I was 7 years old. Surely theres not any present day hams that can't outdo a 7 year old! Dennis ************************************************************ WHATSIT?; Mark 30 MOD 0 Dennis, I am looking for some information on a device I picked up at a local hamfest recently. The unit is housed in a black circular can about 4 inches in diameter by 6 inches long with a screw on cap. Further discription is as follows: The unit is identified as Firing Device, Radio Mark 30 MOD 0 S/N 654 Code 888 Contract No: N00123-71-C-0978 Mfr 13190 P/N 133400 2879687 Tridea Electronics Under the screw on cap the unit has two firing terminals, a wire antenna, adjustable safety time switch with range 25 seconds to 20 minutes, off/on switch and a warning light. The unit appears to use 4 D Cell batteries inside and another rectangular battery (probably to power the electronics). Have you seen one of these devices ? Do you know where it was used ? I would also be interested in knowing what kind of a transmitter triggers this device , also any history you may know. Many thanks for your help. Jim Karlow ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------- Jim, The only thing that Fedlog turned up was that it had an original cost of $3300.00, & a deferred cost of $964.00(I believe this is what they reduced it to when it gets obsoleted). It also shows the Dept. of the Navy as the purchaser, refered to as a FIRING DEVICE,RADIO. There is no characteristic data avail, but it does list the address of the manufacture & I can send it to you if you need. Maybe some member might have additional info. Dennis ************************************************************ WHATSIT?; TRIPOD M-230B I have found a tripod with the designation "TRIPOD M-230-B". It is OD and appears to have a WW-II style Signal Corps inspection stamp on it. (bright but smeared - too much paint on the stamp) Anybody got any idea what it was used for? Lenox carruth@swbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- Len, Many field portable direction finding & field intensity/search receivers used tripods beginning in early WW-II, to support both radios & antennas. My preliminary search does not however match any of the known types up with your numbers. What's it's general size & what type of mount does it have? Any other numbers that might be on it will aid a Fedlog search. Maybe somebody else might have a clue. A note to future WHATSIT request. any data of any kind, including numbers, & especially NSN numbers will greatly help searches conducted via Fedlog. Many of these may seem at first glance to be meaningless. One of the numbers on Jim's whatsit that even I thought to be no good, is what turned up the little info there was. Dennis ************************************************* Got Too Many RS-6s; Wonna Trade? i have 3 RS-6, one PRC-5. would trade for MBM BC-1209 TRC-10 canadian ATR-11 UK WS18 or 48 or any kind of German Italian or Japanese radio WW2 -- i would trade one-to-one or all-for-one for such equipment. tnx, hue miller ho4bart@aol.com in the green republic of Cascadia, Oregun state. "Have You Hugged Your Trees Today ? " ************************************************* *************************************************** Ralph Hogan VMIC VME Microsystems International Corp Huntsville, AL 205-650-8161 wk 1-800-322-3616 205-882-0859 fax email: ralph.hogan@vmic.com wk *************************************************** --------- End forwarded message ---------- When finished reading use browser back button or go to http://www.prc68.com/MCGP/MCGP.html