BB Guns

© Brooke Clarke 2010 - 2017

Background
Figures:
Fig 1 (right) & Fig 2 (Left) Model 1938B "Red Ryder"
Fig 3 (right) & Fig 4 (left) Model 95B "Quick Skill"
Fig 7 Model 120 break action, Scope Replacement
Model 25 Fig 1 New in the box
Model 25 Fig 3 Shipped with stock off, not using take-down screw.
Model 25 Fig 10 - very old example
Crosman P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol

Targets
Description
Related
Patents
Links


Background

Daisy (Wiki) has been making BB guns (Wiki) since the 1890s.  The early air guns were designed to shoot lead shot as made for shotguns.  In the mid 1920s the American Ball (bearing) Company started making "Bulls Eye" ammo for BB guns.  Being steel rather than lead it worked better and daisy later bought the company.
BB guns are part of the Air Gun (Wiki) group.  The two most common calibers of Pellet guns (Wiki) are 0.177 and 0.22.  Where the 0.177 pellet is the same size as a BB and the 0.22 is the same size as the 22 rim fire (Wiki) bullet.

The Daisy Model 120 is a 0.177 caliber pellet gun.  I think it also shoots BBs.
Also see my Popguns web page since Daily made many of those.

Fig 1 Daisy 1938B BB Gun "Red Ryder"

The "Red Ryder" is mainly used by visiting boys.  BBs are the most economical way to have fun plinking (Wiki).

Daisy
                  1938B BB Gun "Red Ryder"
Fig 2 Daisy 1938B BB Gun "Red Ryder"
Daisy
                  1938B BB Gun "Red Ryder"

Fig 3 Daisy 95B

Daisy 95B
                  BB Rifle
Fig 4 Daisy 95B
Daisy 95B
                  BB Rifle
Fig 5 Model 25 Pump action BB gun

Fig 6 Model 25 Pump action BB gun

Fig 7 Daisy Model 120

.177 cal. break barrel which Daisy imported 1984-1985, it was made by El Gamo of Spain
Daisy Model 120
                    BB Gun
Fig 8 Daisy Model 120
Daisy Model 120
                    BB Gun
Fig 9 Daisy Model 120 (photo has but cut off)
Daisy Model 120
                    BB Gun

Scope

The telescopic sight has some problems.
1. the horizontal cross hair is broken, but both sides seem to stay in the same place and the left side crosses the vertical hair so the aim point is still there.
2. the adjustments do not go far enough to put the scope aim point on the point of impact.
3. for me the biggest problem is that it's very difficult to get your eye in just the correct spot.  This may be because this is a 4 x 15 scope.  That means it's a 4 power scope with a 15mm dia objective. So, dividing the 15mm by the 4 power gives an exit pupil of 3.75mm and that image size needs to be matched by the pupil of your eye.  Looking at scopes on eBay with a 3/8" dovetail shows that a common scope is the 4x32 which has an 8mm exit pupil and the same power, so much more forgiving in terms of eye placement.
I have on order from eBay this scope: CenterPoint Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail Rings, Duplex Reticle by seller: atlanticsmall (under $40 including shipping)  This scope gets high marks in a YouTube on air rifle scopes and is the one made by Crosman for their air guns.
Fig 1 Front of package
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 2 Back of package
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 3 In the box - 3mm hex wrench, cleaning cloth, 2-way lens cap (clear or yellow filter)
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 4 Compare CenterPoint 4x32 with Daisy 4x15.
The CenterPoint is more than twice the objective dia
plus the CenterPoint scope has optical coatings and it looks like the Daisy is raw glass.
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 5 View through the Daisy 4x15mm scope.
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 6 The view through the CenterPoint is brighter and with better colors.  Note the cross hairs are thick near the edges and narrow at the center.
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 7 One Click = 1/4" @ 100 Yards.
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 8 First shots would not even hit 8-1/2 x 11 paper.

Notice the elevation wheel is all the way down and still not enough, so shimmed under the front ring to raise front of scope using a double thickness of 3x5 card.
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 9 Rear patio table, with 80mm 20-60X Spotting scope to save a lot of walking.  Note paper shim under front ring.
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings
Fig 10 Added cardboard box to confirm initial shooting very high.  But even after screwing elevation all the way down was still many inches high.
CenterPoint
                    Rim Rifle Scope 4x32mm with 3/8" Dovetail
                    Rings





YouTube: Trotliners - has the best info on sight adjustment that takes into consideration drop with distance and various parameters related to the ammo used.
Straight Shooters offers a box with 25 each of 18 different pellets so you can see which work best in your gun.  These come in different calibers.
Pyramyd Air - one of a number of air gun dealers that knows how to ship pellets without damaging them.
Airguns of Arizona - another major air gun dealer

Napier pellet lube - is it worth the trouble along with sorting pellets by weight?  let me know.

Crosman P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol

The thing that recommends this model is that there are a large number of modifications available to fit this .177 caliber pistol and the companion P1322 pistol in .22 caliber.  As well as being reasonably priced on Amazon prime (about $50 including shipping).

The problem I have is my eyes will no focus on the rear sight, front sight and target all at the same time, so am looking into getting the 459MT Crossman P13xx to 3/8" adapter and a 3/8" rail pistol scope.

Fig 1
Crosman
                      P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol
Fig 2
Crosman
                      P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol
Fig 3
Crosman
                      P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol
Fig 4
Crosman
                      P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol
Fig 5
Crosman
                      P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol
Fig 6
Crosman
                      P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol
Fig 7
Crosman
                      P1377 American Classic Pellet Pistol
Mount Fig 1 - 459MT 3/8" Crosman mount for 7/16" barrel
459MT
                      3/8" Crosman mount for 7/16" barrel

Mount Fig 2 - 459MT on 1377 pistol
459MT
                      3/8" Crosman mount for 7/16" barrel
Fig 1: Wizard 1x30mm Red/ Green Dot Scope
Marked: Southland Archery Supply SAS
Wizard
                        1x30mm Scope

Fig 2
The dot is focused at infinity so when it's in focus for a photo the sight itself is very out of focus.
Wizard
                    1x30mm Scope

Fig 3 The mounting can be reversed to work with either
7/8" or in this case 3/8" dovetails.  It did not clamp so some 3x5 card stock was used to ship the 459MT to be wider.
Wizard
                        1x30mm Scope
Fig 1 ACOG Style 1x32 Red/Green Dot Sight



The problem with the 459MT mount or maybe with the barrel itself is that when side force is applied to the scope the barrel twists.  It's very rubbery.  Maybe moving the mount all the way to the back or to the front would make for a more stable setup?

Targets

The actual size of a target is not as important is the angle it subtends.  1 Minute Of Angle (MOA) is about 1" at 100 yards.

Crosman Squirrel Reset Target (CSRT)

This is a pellet only target (.177 up to 1200 F/s or .22 up tp 950 F/s.  When the main target is hit it falls back out of sight, when the lower reset target is hit the main target reappears.
Yellow targets are 1/8" think, black background is 0.1" thick.  Height from top to tail to point of stake is 19".

Fig 1
Crosman Squirrel Reset Target (CSRT)
Fig 2  Main target 1.4" dia
Reset target is 2" dia.
Crosman Squirrel Reset Target (CSRT)
Fig 3
Crosman Squirrel Reset Target (CSRT)

Fig 6
Crosman Squirrel Reset Target (CSRT)
Fig 4
Crosman Squirrel Reset Target (CSRT)


1032060 Target, William E Hawthorne, Daisy Mfg Co, Jul 9, 1912, 273/382 - gong on post rings for bulls-eye.   
1036879 Target, Walter Curtis Miner, Aug 27, 1912, 273/388 - Main target and reset target made from same piece of metal betn at 90 degrees.  Leaf spring holds in one of two positions. 
3212488 Toy Gun, Carl Merl, Hirsch Mahlon E, Marx & Co Louis, Oct 19, 1965, 124/82, 446/193, 42/57, 124/2 - cap rifle that ejects cartridges
2978598 Motor available for toys

Description

Red Ryder model 1938B Fig 1 & 2

This is the classical lever action repeating BB rifle.  The stock is made from a board that's slightly more than 13/16" thick.
1938B was made between 1979 and 14987.

Quick Skill (Quick Kill) Model 95B Fig 3 & 4

The stocks on the 95B are very similar to the stocks on a real rifle.  It's intended for training in instinctive shooting, i.e. without relying on the sights.  This can be done by having someone throw objects into the air.  (The box contains two eye protection glasses).  The box is marked Model 197B, which may be the number for the set rather than just the rifle?  The instruction booklet says Model 199B B*B Gun.  Model numbers 197B and 199B do not appear in the Daisy Outdoor Products Air Rifle Chronology.

95B was made between 1978 and 1998.

Related

40mm Gernades & Related
Hammerlli M150 Free Pistol
Popguns & Big Bang Carbide Cannon
Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum Revolver w/Laser Sight
FN FAL ".308 Match" Rifle
Survival Kit with Pocket Pen Gun flare launcher
Semi-automatic Weapons

Patents

These are a tiny fraction of the Daisy Mfg. Co. patents.

390297 Air Gun, Clarence J. Hamilton (Daisy Mfg), Oct 2 1888, - lever action, but not with loop, single shot
390311 Spring Air-Gun, C.A. Pinckney & C.J. Hamilton (not assigned), Oct 2 1888, - lever action, but not with loop, single shot
427313 Barrel for Spring Air Guns, Clarence J. Hamilton (Daisy Mfg), May 6 1890, -
RE11247 Method of Uniting Barrels of Air Guns, Clarence J. Hamilton (Daisy Mfg), June 21 1892, - was patent 427313
631010 Air Gun, Clarence J. Hamilton (Daisy Mfg), Aug 15 1899, 124/66 - Stock is hinged w/respect to the barrel
660070 Air Rifle, W.J. Burrow (Daisy Mfg), Oct 16 1900, 124/66- single shot hinges to expose breach (Break Action) Break Action models: A (1907 - 1910), 20 (1908-1936), C (1912-1913), 106 (1955-1959)
662054 Repeating Air Rifle, W.J. Burrow (Daisy Mfg), Nov 20 1900, -
670760 Air-Gun, Frederick F. Bennett (Daisy Mfg), Mar 26 1901, 124/83
679670 Repeating Air Rifle, Clarence J. Hamilton (Daisy Mfg), July 30 1901,
683431 Air-Gun, Frederick F. Bennett (Daisy Mfg), Oct 1 1901, 124/67 ; 124/49
765270 Air Gun, W.J. Burrows (Daisy Mfg), July 19 1904, - loop type lever action & repeating operation
830121 Air Gun, G.W. Warren (Daisy Mfg), Sep 4 1906, - hinge between barrel and stock, repeating
843990 Air Gun, Frederick F. Bennett (Daisy Mfg), Feb 12 1907, 124/85 ; 124/49 -
897813 Air-Gun, B.B. Bennett (Daisy Mfg), Sep 1 1908, - hinge between barrel and stock, repeating
903092 Air-Gun, E.C. Hough (Daisy Mfg), Nov 3 1908, - front sight is part of magazine cap
904507 Air-Gun, W.J. Burrows (Daisy Mfg), Nov 24 1908, - magazine loading port next to front sight
984072 Air-Gun, W.J. Burrows (Daisy Mfg), Feb 14 1911, - magazine to barrel transition
1095218 Razor Steopper, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), May 5 1914, - for sharpening razor blades
Pump Action 25 (1914-today)
1097244 Spring Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), May 19 1914, - Pump Action (Model 25)
Patnet
                    1097244 Spring Gun Daisy Model 25
Model 25 Fig 1
Daisy Pump
                      Action Model 25
Fig 2
Daisy Pump
                      Action Model 25

Model 25 Fig 3 Shipped with stock off, not using take-down screw.

Daisy Pump
                      Action Model 25
Fig 4
Daisy Pump
                      Action Model 25
Fig 5
Daisy Pump
                      Action Model 25
Fig 6
Daisy Pump
                      Action Model 25
Fig 7 Cocking
Daisy Pump
                      Action Model 25
Fig 8 Barrel & BB Tube, muzzle at right
Daisy Pump
                      Action Model 25 Barrel & BB Tube

Model 25 Fig 10 - very old example

Fixed front sight, so 1916 or later.
3-1/2" tep of barrel to pump handle = long throw lever, so after 1927

Daisy No. 25 BB
                      Gun (old)
Fig 11 Label w/Patent Numbers
Daisy No 25
Daisy Mfg.  Co.
Plymouth, Mich. U.S.A. (so pre 1958, "Rodgers, Arkansas" for post 1958).
1097244 Spring Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), May 19 1914, - First Pump Action patent (Model 25)
1114491 Shot Magazine for Spring Air Guns, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg),Oct 20 1914, - feed is independent of gun position
1136470 Spring Air Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Apr 20 1915, - Compound pump action, one screw (H) take down
1220649 Magazine-barrel for air-guns, Charles F Lefever, Daisy Mfg Co, Mar 27, 1917, 124/52 - see Fig 8 above
1573383 Air gun, Charles F Lefever, Daisy Mfg Co, Feb 16, 1926, 124/49 - spring flap to allow loading BB & not spill them
Daisy No. 25 BB
                      Gun (old)
Fig 12 Top to bottom:
Daisy No. 120 break action w/scope
Daisy No. 25 (new)
Daisy No. 25 (old)
Daisy No. 25 BB
                      Gun (old)
Fig 13 Remove 1 thumb screw (1136470 "H") and break down into two easy to ship/store parts
Notice the trigger spring is sticking out on the back side of the trigger.  Maybe explains why the trigger is all the way back?
The piston assembly and barrel/magazine are missing.
Daisy No. 25 BB
                      Gun (old)
Reinforcing rib on pump linkage, so after 1915
Rounded rear on trigger guard, s0 1930 or newer
Rear of receiver over stock tang, so 1930 or newer
Maybe missing pump guide rod is because it was a claw type, so 1914 to 1931
Cone takedown screw, so 1927 or later
Pistol grip stock, so 1930 - 1953

1114491 Shot Magazine for Sprint Air Guns, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg),Oct 20 1914, - feed is independent of gun position
1114610 Spring Gun, W.E. Hawthorne (Daisy Mfg), Oct 20 1914, - pump action
1136470 Spring Air Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Apr 20 1915, - Compound pump action
1303336 Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), May 13 1919, - looks like the WWI Springfield 1903 military bolt action rifle
1358959 Lever Arm for Guns C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg),  Nov 16 1920, - how to make loop type lever
1381127 Magazine for Guns, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Jun 14 1921,  - for compound pump action
1390569 Air Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Sep 13 1921, - open lever action w/ tilting breach
1466131 Popgun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Aug 28 1923, - cork in end of barrel type
1598204 Popgun, Charles F Lefever, Daisy Mfg Co, Aug 31, 1926, -
1662067 Liquid Gun, Charles F Lefever, Daisy Mfg Co, Mar 13, 1928,  222/79, 222/321.6, 222/381 - squirt (water) pistol
1779892 Popgun, Roe Ernest S, King Mfg Company (sold to Daisy), Oct 28, 1930, -
1793625 Shooting and Magazine Barrel for Air Rifles, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Feb 24 1931,  -
1180855 Spring air-gun, Charles F Lefever, Daisy Mfg Co, Apr 25, 1916, 124/66, 124/37, 124/40 - sheet metal trigger  
1180856 See Water Guns
1180857  "
1180858  "
1180859 Air-gun barrel and method of forming the same, Charles F Lefever, Daisy Mfg Co, Apr 25, 1916, 124/83, 72/362, 42/76.1, 101/415.1, 138/169, 228/144, 206/37, 228/171 -        
1825190 Combined Shooting and Magazine Barrel for Spring Air Guns, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Sep 29 1931 -
1830291 Popgun, Ernest S Roe, King Mfg Company, (sold to Daisy), Nov 3, 1931, -
1856285 Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), May 3 1932, - pump action looks like shotgun
1886561 Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Nov 8 1932, - pump action
1886562 Target, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg), Nov 8 1932, - bell rings only for bullseye
1978799 Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg),  Oct 30 1934, - shrouded peep sights lever action
2213318 Toy Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg),  Sep 3 1940, - fires large soft balls
2196732 Double Barrel Spring Air Gun, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg),  Apr 9 1940, - looks like side-by-side double barrel shotgun & is double barrel BB gun
2204372 Piston for Air Guns, J.J. McHenry, Jun 11 1940, - allows air input without drilling hole in tube which is a weak spot, instead there's a valve on back of piston.
2215513 Adjustable Gun Sight, C.F. Lefever (Daisy Mfg),   Sep 24 1940, - screw adjustment
2528495 Repeating Air Gun, E.E. Carter (Daisy Mfg), Nov 7 1950, - coil spring allows multiple shots just by pulling trigger
2604088 Air Gun, W.S. Wells(Daisy Mfg),  July 22 1952, - looks like a Benjamin .177 pellet gun
2729208 Popgun, Lee B Gaeke, Daisy Mfg Co, Jan 3, 1956, -
2758586 Air gun, Ciro R Scalingi, Daisy Mfg Co, Aug 14, 1956, 124/67 - Model 107 "Trombone" cocking
2837865 Popgun construction, William S Wells, Daisy Mfg Co, Jun 10, 1958, - slide switch safety - OT No. M417157 - Model 1105

Daisy
                              OT No. M417157 - Model 1105 Pat. 2837865

Daisy
                              OT No. M417157 - Model 1105 Pat. 2837865


2837865 Popgun construction, William S Wells, Daisy Mfg Co, Jun 10, 1958, - slide switch safety - OT No. M417157 - Model 1105

Links

Pyramydair Gun Mall: Airgun Academy: Daisy 25 dating information – Part 1, Daisy 25 dating information – Part 2
Airguns of Arizona -
Beemans.net: New Evidence on the Lewis and Clark Air Rifle – an “Assault Rifle” of 1803 - used on the Lewis & Clark expedition.
YouTube: Forgotten Weapons -  Girardoni Air Gun (original 1780 example) -
There are PCP (Pre-Charged Pneumatic) air guns (Wiki)


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page created 5 July 2010.